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Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 11:17:00 <Dave Thom> Hey all, I was reading one of my old Zoom magazines the other day, and came across a nifty little piece from RSM in australia (from memory) that was basically a mechanical tap for the fuel pressure regulator where you set the point it starts bleeding and also how much it bleeds, to prevent the way most turbo cars run rich with a little boost stuck into them... My question is, does anyone know if theres a local alternative for this? Or anything else I can do to stop the back of my car being covered in black shit apart from splashing out $650 I don't have on an Apexi S-AFC... Cheers :) Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 (html version)

RE: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 11:26:00 <Cully Paterson> How about instead of adding a nasty hack like this to the car, that you trace the reason that it's overfueling? A correctly set up car will run rich, but not enough to leave soot behind. You need to check that: - Fuel fail pressure is behaving correctly (should vary between about 37 and 52psi depending on how much manifold vacuum you've got) - Your O2 sensor is delivering believable readings. - Your ECU isn't overcorrecting the mixture for no good reason (check VF voltages) - Your AFM is in good order. Cully _____ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:17 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: [sconz] Solutions for richness Hey all, I was reading one of my old Zoom magazines the other day, and came across a nifty little piece from RSM in australia (from memory) that was basically a mechanical tap for the fuel pressure regulator where you set the point it starts bleeding and also how much it bleeds, to prevent the way most turbo cars run rich with a little boost stuck into them... My question is, does anyone know if theres a local alternative for this? Or anything else I can do to stop the back of my car being covered in black shit apart from splashing out $650 I don't have on an Apexi S-AFC... Cheers :) Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ (html version)

Re: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 11:30:00 <Dave Thom> And of course I have all the equipment to check those...? Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness How about instead of adding a nasty hack like this to the car, that you trace the reason that it's overfueling? A correctly set up car will run rich, but not enough to leave soot behind. You need to check that: - Fuel fail pressure is behaving correctly (should vary between about 37 and 52psi depending on how much manifold vacuum you've got) - Your O2 sensor is delivering believable readings. - Your ECU isn't overcorrecting the mixture for no good reason (check VF voltages) - Your AFM is in good order. Cully ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:17 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: [sconz] Solutions for richness Hey all, I was reading one of my old Zoom magazines the other day, and came across a nifty little piece from RSM in australia (from memory) that was basically a mechanical tap for the fuel pressure regulator where you set the point it starts bleeding and also how much it bleeds, to prevent the way most turbo cars run rich with a little boost stuck into them... My question is, does anyone know if theres a local alternative for this? Or anything else I can do to stop the back of my car being covered in black shit apart from splashing out $650 I don't have on an Apexi S-AFC... Cheers :) Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ (html version)

Re: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 11:30:00 <Stuart> On Wed, 05 May 2004 11:16, Dave Thom wrote: > Hey all, I was reading one of my old Zoom magazines the other day, and came > across a nifty little piece from RSM in australia (from memory) that was > basically a mechanical tap for the fuel pressure regulator where you set > the point it starts bleeding and also how much it bleeds, to prevent the > way most turbo cars run rich with a little boost stuck into them... Um, that's like preventing the way brakes slow down your car. They run rich because it allows the engine to live.. It's, as they say, a feature, not a bug. > My question is, does anyone know if theres a local alternative for this? Or > anything else I can do to stop the back of my car being covered in black > shit apart from splashing out $650 I don't have on an Apexi S-AFC... If the back of your car is getting covered with black shit then there is something wrong with it. I ran a white Mk.3 7M-GTE for quite a few years, with a nice big 3" exhaust system and extra boost for much of it's life without a soot problem. Regards, Stuart W.

RE: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 11:34:00 <Cully Paterson> Yes, you probably do have most of it. O2 sensor and ECU correction simply require a multimeter. Fuel rail pressure requires a pressure gauge and suitable fitting to mate it to the fuel rail. AFM tends to be a little more difficult, but is easiest to test by swapping in a known good one and driving it for a few days. _____ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:29 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness And of course I have all the equipment to check those...? Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness How about instead of adding a nasty hack like this to the car, that you trace the reason that it's overfueling? A correctly set up car will run rich, but not enough to leave soot behind. You need to check that: - Fuel fail pressure is behaving correctly (should vary between about 37 and 52psi depending on how much manifold vacuum you've got) - Your O2 sensor is delivering believable readings. - Your ECU isn't overcorrecting the mixture for no good reason (check VF voltages) - Your AFM is in good order. Cully _____ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:17 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: [sconz] Solutions for richness Hey all, I was reading one of my old Zoom magazines the other day, and came across a nifty little piece from RSM in australia (from memory) that was basically a mechanical tap for the fuel pressure regulator where you set the point it starts bleeding and also how much it bleeds, to prevent the way most turbo cars run rich with a little boost stuck into them... My question is, does anyone know if theres a local alternative for this? Or anything else I can do to stop the back of my car being covered in black shit apart from splashing out $650 I don't have on an Apexi S-AFC... Cheers :) Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ (html version)

Re: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 11:39:00 <Dave Thom> Would it likely be in any way related to my oversensitive knock sensor triggering whenever I accelerate over cats eyes? *sigh* Most of that diagnosis is a little beyond me... Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:33 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Yes, you probably do have most of it. O2 sensor and ECU correction simply require a multimeter. Fuel rail pressure requires a pressure gauge and suitable fitting to mate it to the fuel rail. AFM tends to be a little more difficult, but is easiest to test by swapping in a known good one and driving it for a few days. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:29 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness And of course I have all the equipment to check those...? Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness How about instead of adding a nasty hack like this to the car, that you trace the reason that it's overfueling? A correctly set up car will run rich, but not enough to leave soot behind. You need to check that: - Fuel fail pressure is behaving correctly (should vary between about 37 and 52psi depending on how much manifold vacuum you've got) - Your O2 sensor is delivering believable readings. - Your ECU isn't overcorrecting the mixture for no good reason (check VF voltages) - Your AFM is in good order. Cully ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:17 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: [sconz] Solutions for richness Hey all, I was reading one of my old Zoom magazines the other day, and came across a nifty little piece from RSM in australia (from memory) that was basically a mechanical tap for the fuel pressure regulator where you set the point it starts bleeding and also how much it bleeds, to prevent the way most turbo cars run rich with a little boost stuck into them... My question is, does anyone know if theres a local alternative for this? Or anything else I can do to stop the back of my car being covered in black shit apart from splashing out $650 I don't have on an Apexi S-AFC... Cheers :) Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ (html version)

RE: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 11:42:00 <Cully Paterson> Unlikely to be knock issue. Knock will just retard the timing - I'm 99% sure it has no effect on fueling (not awake enough yet to say 100%). The rest of the diagnosis is honestly quite easy. Go read up on the characteristics of O2 sensors and what it means (basically they put out 0-1volts which indicates whether the mixture is rich or lean - can't get much simpler). Then read up on VF - that's a stepped voltage output from the ECU which tells you whether the ECU is deliberately richening or leaning the mixture. Now if you can't manage to swap an AFM out then I give up :) _____ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:38 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Would it likely be in any way related to my oversensitive knock sensor triggering whenever I accelerate over cats eyes? *sigh* Most of that diagnosis is a little beyond me... Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:33 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Yes, you probably do have most of it. O2 sensor and ECU correction simply require a multimeter. Fuel rail pressure requires a pressure gauge and suitable fitting to mate it to the fuel rail. AFM tends to be a little more difficult, but is easiest to test by swapping in a known good one and driving it for a few days. _____ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:29 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness And of course I have all the equipment to check those...? Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness How about instead of adding a nasty hack like this to the car, that you trace the reason that it's overfueling? A correctly set up car will run rich, but not enough to leave soot behind. You need to check that: - Fuel fail pressure is behaving correctly (should vary between about 37 and 52psi depending on how much manifold vacuum you've got) - Your O2 sensor is delivering believable readings. - Your ECU isn't overcorrecting the mixture for no good reason (check VF voltages) - Your AFM is in good order. Cully _____ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:17 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: [sconz] Solutions for richness Hey all, I was reading one of my old Zoom magazines the other day, and came across a nifty little piece from RSM in australia (from memory) that was basically a mechanical tap for the fuel pressure regulator where you set the point it starts bleeding and also how much it bleeds, to prevent the way most turbo cars run rich with a little boost stuck into them... My question is, does anyone know if theres a local alternative for this? Or anything else I can do to stop the back of my car being covered in black shit apart from splashing out $650 I don't have on an Apexi S-AFC... Cheers :) Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ (html version)

Re: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 11:48:00 <Stuart> On Wed, 05 May 2004 11:42, Cully Paterson wrote: > Unlikely to be knock issue. Knock will just retard the timing - I'm 99% > sure it has no effect on fueling (not awake enough yet to say 100%). Well, yes and no ;) If the knock sensor is over-reading a LOT then it is possible for it to retard very much and therefore you end up with a poor burn, which can also be sooty.. > The rest of the diagnosis is honestly quite easy. Go read up on the > characteristics of O2 sensors and what it means (basically they put out > 0-1volts which indicates whether the mixture is rich or lean - can't get > much simpler). Then read up on VF - that's a stepped voltage output > from the ECU which tells you whether the ECU is deliberately richening > or leaning the mixture. Oxy sensor and Vf checks are, are Cully says, very easy with a little reading. Regards, Stuart.

Re: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 12:10:00 <Dave Thom> Alrighty, cheers guys, I'll have to get into it when I get a chance... the issue with my knock sensor is that when accelerating and I hit a cats eye the car seems to die completely and the check engine light comes on, I'm aware of how to fix this as it was posted previously, I jsut have to get around to it... I'll probably do that first and then look at the richness problem if its still there... Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart" <stuartw@kcbbs.gen.nz> To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:48 AM Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness > On Wed, 05 May 2004 11:42, Cully Paterson wrote: > > Unlikely to be knock issue. Knock will just retard the timing - I'm 99% > > sure it has no effect on fueling (not awake enough yet to say 100%). > > Well, yes and no ;) > If the knock sensor is over-reading a LOT then it is possible for it to retard > very much and therefore you end up with a poor burn, which can also be > sooty.. > > > The rest of the diagnosis is honestly quite easy. Go read up on the > > characteristics of O2 sensors and what it means (basically they put out > > 0-1volts which indicates whether the mixture is rich or lean - can't get > > much simpler). Then read up on VF - that's a stepped voltage output > > from the ECU which tells you whether the ECU is deliberately richening > > or leaning the mixture. > > Oxy sensor and Vf checks are, are Cully says, very easy with a little reading. > > Regards, > Stuart. > > --- > Supra Club of New Zealand > http://www.supras.org.nz/ >

RE: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 12:16:00 <Cully Paterson> I'm pretty sure that a faulty/disconnected knock sensor will not produce a check engine/error code unless you jumper the diags box. I'd suggest you jumper TE1 and E1 and read off the fault code before you assume the worst... > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] > Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 12:10 p.m. > To: SCONZ.list Forward > Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness > > Alrighty, cheers guys, I'll have to get into it when I get a > chance... the issue with my knock sensor is that when > accelerating and I hit a cats eye the car seems to die > completely and the check engine light comes on, I'm aware of > how to fix this as it was posted previously, I jsut have to > get around to it... I'll probably do that first and then look > at the richness problem if its still there... > > Regards > > Dave Thom > IT Engineer > 021 140 4657 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stuart" <stuartw@kcbbs.gen.nz> > To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz> > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:48 AM > Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness > > > > On Wed, 05 May 2004 11:42, Cully Paterson wrote: > > > Unlikely to be knock issue. Knock will just retard the > timing - I'm 99% > > > sure it has no effect on fueling (not awake enough yet to > say 100%). > > > > Well, yes and no ;) > > If the knock sensor is over-reading a LOT then it is > possible for it to > retard > > very much and therefore you end up with a poor burn, which > can also be > > sooty.. > > > > > The rest of the diagnosis is honestly quite easy. Go > read up on the > > > characteristics of O2 sensors and what it means > (basically they put out > > > 0-1volts which indicates whether the mixture is rich or > lean - can't get > > > much simpler). Then read up on VF - that's a stepped > voltage output > > > from the ECU which tells you whether the ECU is > deliberately richening > > > or leaning the mixture. > > > > Oxy sensor and Vf checks are, are Cully says, very easy > with a little > reading. > > > > Regards, > > Stuart. > > > > --- > > Supra Club of New Zealand > > http://www.supras.org.nz/ > > > > > > --- > Supra Club of New Zealand > http://www.supras.org.nz/ >

Re: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 12:41:00 <Dobson Technical> Although this is probably the 5th or 6th time I have said this. Here goes again In my 1G an Commonly in others when either your knock sensor or cabling to the knock sensor is faulty it creates a fault where the car not only feels flat ie loos of power but also has the unmistakable characteristic of piling lots of black smoke out your exhaust and running very rich. If you have not replaced either the knock sensor cable or the knock sensor or preferably both then you can play with whatever you like and still have the same fault. If you wish I can send the e-mall again and explain the full process I went through, but I can tell you now that it is a common fault amongst 1G's Cheers Lee MKII 1G-GTE (missing one turbo) ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:42 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Unlikely to be knock issue. Knock will just retard the timing - I'm 99% sure it has no effect on fueling (not awake enough yet to say 100%). The rest of the diagnosis is honestly quite easy. Go read up on the characteristics of O2 sensors and what it means (basically they put out 0-1volts which indicates whether the mixture is rich or lean - can't get much simpler). Then read up on VF - that's a stepped voltage output from the ECU which tells you whether the ECU is deliberately richening or leaning the mixture. Now if you can't manage to swap an AFM out then I give up :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:38 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Would it likely be in any way related to my oversensitive knock sensor triggering whenever I accelerate over cats eyes? *sigh* Most of that diagnosis is a little beyond me... Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:33 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Yes, you probably do have most of it. O2 sensor and ECU correction simply require a multimeter. Fuel rail pressure requires a pressure gauge and suitable fitting to mate it to the fuel rail. AFM tends to be a little more difficult, but is easiest to test by swapping in a known good one and driving it for a few days. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:29 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness And of course I have all the equipment to check those...? Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness How about instead of adding a nasty hack like this to the car, that you trace the reason that it's overfueling? A correctly set up car will run rich, but not enough to leave soot behind. You need to check that: - Fuel fail pressure is behaving correctly (should vary between about 37 and 52psi depending on how much manifold vacuum you've got) - Your O2 sensor is delivering believable readings. - Your ECU isn't overcorrecting the mixture for no good reason (check VF voltages) - Your AFM is in good order. Cully -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:17 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: [sconz] Solutions for richness Hey all, I was reading one of my old Zoom magazines the other day, and came across a nifty little piece from RSM in australia (from memory) that was basically a mechanical tap for the fuel pressure regulator where you set the point it starts bleeding and also how much it bleeds, to prevent the way most turbo cars run rich with a little boost stuck into them... My question is, does anyone know if theres a local alternative for this? Or anything else I can do to stop the back of my car being covered in black shit apart from splashing out $650 I don't have on an Apexi S-AFC... Cheers :) Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ (html version)

RE: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 12:50:00 <Cully Paterson> Just to clarify Lee, does this fault produce a check engine light when you're driving, or does it only show up when you jumper the diags, or no fault code at all? _____ From: Dobson Technical [mailto:dobsontech@xtra.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 12:38 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Although this is probably the 5th or 6th time I have said this. Here goes again In my 1G an Commonly in others when either your knock sensor or cabling to the knock sensor is faulty it creates a fault where the car not only feels flat ie loos of power but also has the unmistakable characteristic of piling lots of black smoke out your exhaust and running very rich. If you have not replaced either the knock sensor cable or the knock sensor or preferably both then you can play with whatever you like and still have the same fault. If you wish I can send the e-mall again and explain the full process I went through, but I can tell you now that it is a common fault amongst 1G's Cheers Lee MKII 1G-GTE (missing one turbo) ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:42 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Unlikely to be knock issue. Knock will just retard the timing - I'm 99% sure it has no effect on fueling (not awake enough yet to say 100%). The rest of the diagnosis is honestly quite easy. Go read up on the characteristics of O2 sensors and what it means (basically they put out 0-1volts which indicates whether the mixture is rich or lean - can't get much simpler). Then read up on VF - that's a stepped voltage output from the ECU which tells you whether the ECU is deliberately richening or leaning the mixture. Now if you can't manage to swap an AFM out then I give up :) _____ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:38 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Would it likely be in any way related to my oversensitive knock sensor triggering whenever I accelerate over cats eyes? *sigh* Most of that diagnosis is a little beyond me... Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:33 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Yes, you probably do have most of it. O2 sensor and ECU correction simply require a multimeter. Fuel rail pressure requires a pressure gauge and suitable fitting to mate it to the fuel rail. AFM tends to be a little more difficult, but is easiest to test by swapping in a known good one and driving it for a few days. _____ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:29 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness And of course I have all the equipment to check those...? Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness How about instead of adding a nasty hack like this to the car, that you trace the reason that it's overfueling? A correctly set up car will run rich, but not enough to leave soot behind. You need to check that: - Fuel fail pressure is behaving correctly (should vary between about 37 and 52psi depending on how much manifold vacuum you've got) - Your O2 sensor is delivering believable readings. - Your ECU isn't overcorrecting the mixture for no good reason (check VF voltages) - Your AFM is in good order. Cully _____ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:17 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: [sconz] Solutions for richness Hey all, I was reading one of my old Zoom magazines the other day, and came across a nifty little piece from RSM in australia (from memory) that was basically a mechanical tap for the fuel pressure regulator where you set the point it starts bleeding and also how much it bleeds, to prevent the way most turbo cars run rich with a little boost stuck into them... My question is, does anyone know if theres a local alternative for this? Or anything else I can do to stop the back of my car being covered in black shit apart from splashing out $650 I don't have on an Apexi S-AFC... Cheers :) Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ (html version)

Re: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 13:01:00 <Dobson Technical> To be perfectly honest I never looked for a fault code at the time, but I must also say that I replaced the knock sensor cable on another 1G GA-70 last weekend and it has cured his car also, I dont have any facts or figures to quote you on this I can only speak from personal experience and say including my car this is the third 1G exibiting the rich problem that I have replaced the cable in and it has fixed the problem. On my car I replaced the cable and knock sensor I only mean to say that it seems to be a common fault on 1G's and I now think that maybe due to the angle of the cable or slight twisting of the engine it must fracture the cable over time and this show the common characteristics of loss of power and piles of black smoke. Cheers Lee MKII 1G-GTE (missing one turbo) ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 12:50 PM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Just to clarify Lee, does this fault produce a check engine light when you're driving, or does it only show up when you jumper the diags, or no fault code at all? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dobson Technical [mailto:dobsontech@xtra.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 12:38 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Although this is probably the 5th or 6th time I have said this. Here goes again In my 1G an Commonly in others when either your knock sensor or cabling to the knock sensor is faulty it creates a fault where the car not only feels flat ie loos of power but also has the unmistakable characteristic of piling lots of black smoke out your exhaust and running very rich. If you have not replaced either the knock sensor cable or the knock sensor or preferably both then you can play with whatever you like and still have the same fault. If you wish I can send the e-mall again and explain the full process I went through, but I can tell you now that it is a common fault amongst 1G's Cheers Lee MKII 1G-GTE (missing one turbo) ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:42 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Unlikely to be knock issue. Knock will just retard the timing - I'm 99% sure it has no effect on fueling (not awake enough yet to say 100%). The rest of the diagnosis is honestly quite easy. Go read up on the characteristics of O2 sensors and what it means (basically they put out 0-1volts which indicates whether the mixture is rich or lean - can't get much simpler). Then read up on VF - that's a stepped voltage output from the ECU which tells you whether the ECU is deliberately richening or leaning the mixture. Now if you can't manage to swap an AFM out then I give up :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:38 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Would it likely be in any way related to my oversensitive knock sensor triggering whenever I accelerate over cats eyes? *sigh* Most of that diagnosis is a little beyond me... Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:33 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Yes, you probably do have most of it. O2 sensor and ECU correction simply require a multimeter. Fuel rail pressure requires a pressure gauge and suitable fitting to mate it to the fuel rail. AFM tends to be a little more difficult, but is easiest to test by swapping in a known good one and driving it for a few days. -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:29 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness And of course I have all the equipment to check those...? Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness How about instead of adding a nasty hack like this to the car, that you trace the reason that it's overfueling? A correctly set up car will run rich, but not enough to leave soot behind. You need to check that: - Fuel fail pressure is behaving correctly (should vary between about 37 and 52psi depending on how much manifold vacuum you've got) - Your O2 sensor is delivering believable readings. - Your ECU isn't overcorrecting the mixture for no good reason (check VF voltages) - Your AFM is in good order. Cully ---------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:17 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: [sconz] Solutions for richness Hey all, I was reading one of my old Zoom magazines the other day, and came across a nifty little piece from RSM in australia (from memory) that was basically a mechanical tap for the fuel pressure regulator where you set the point it starts bleeding and also how much it bleeds, to prevent the way most turbo cars run rich with a little boost stuck into them... My question is, does anyone know if theres a local alternative for this? Or anything else I can do to stop the back of my car being covered in black shit apart from splashing out $650 I don't have on an Apexi S-AFC... Cheers :) Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ (html version)

RE: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 13:12:00 <Hunt M> Firstly - The oxy sensor is redundant when under medium to high load anyways Secondly - How can you check the pressure in the fuel rail? Thirdly - I've tried 3 ECU's and 2 oxy sensors and 2 FPR's and still ALWAYS have a very thick coat of black soot on the back bumper after 6-800km's And lastly - Cant be an injector sticking surely as you checked them out not long ago. Any ideas?? Cheers Hunt _____ From: bounce-33356-72@list.supras.org.nz [mailto:bounce-33356-72@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Cully Paterson Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:26 a.m. To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness How about instead of adding a nasty hack like this to the car, that you trace the reason that it's overfueling? A correctly set up car will run rich, but not enough to leave soot behind. You need to check that: - Fuel fail pressure is behaving correctly (should vary between about 37 and 52psi depending on how much manifold vacuum you've got) - Your O2 sensor is delivering believable readings. - Your ECU isn't overcorrecting the mixture for no good reason (check VF voltages) - Your AFM is in good order. Cully _____ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:17 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: [sconz] Solutions for richness Hey all, I was reading one of my old Zoom magazines the other day, and came across a nifty little piece from RSM in australia (from memory) that was basically a mechanical tap for the fuel pressure regulator where you set the point it starts bleeding and also how much it bleeds, to prevent the way most turbo cars run rich with a little boost stuck into them... My question is, does anyone know if theres a local alternative for this? Or anything else I can do to stop the back of my car being covered in black shit apart from splashing out $650 I don't have on an Apexi S-AFC... Cheers :) Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ (html version)

Re: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 13:15:00 <Stuart> On Wed, 05 May 2004 12:09, Dave Thom wrote: > Alrighty, cheers guys, I'll have to get into it when I get a chance... the > issue with my knock sensor is that when accelerating and I hit a cats eye > the car seems to die completely and the check engine light comes on, I'm > aware of how to fix this as it was posted previously, I jsut have to get > around to it... I'll probably do that first and then look at the richness > problem if its still there... Hmm.. seems like more that just a knock sensor problem IMHO. The knock sensor will normally just push you into 'failsafe' model, not kill the engine? I've had similar problems with the connector into the CPS (cam position sensor) on the front drivers side of the engine - if that plug ggets loose, it can kill the engine. Regards, Stuart W.

RE: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 13:19:00 <Cully Paterson> That's pretty much why I didn't point to your knock sensor solution - the fact that Dave's got a 7M which doesn't seem to suffer the same knock sensor problems, and that it's explicitly producing codes while driving seemed to rule it out as an obvious answer. _____ From: Dobson Technical [mailto:dobsontech@xtra.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 12:58 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness To be perfectly honest I never looked for a fault code at the time, but I must also say that I replaced the knock sensor cable on another 1G GA-70 last weekend and it has cured his car also, I dont have any facts or figures to quote you on this I can only speak from personal experience and say including my car this is the third 1G exibiting the rich problem that I have replaced the cable in and it has fixed the problem. On my car I replaced the cable and knock sensor I only mean to say that it seems to be a common fault on 1G's and I now think that maybe due to the angle of the cable or slight twisting of the engine it must fracture the cable over time and this show the common characteristics of loss of power and piles of black smoke. Cheers Lee MKII 1G-GTE (missing one turbo) ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 12:50 PM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Just to clarify Lee, does this fault produce a check engine light when you're driving, or does it only show up when you jumper the diags, or no fault code at all? _____ From: Dobson Technical [mailto:dobsontech@xtra.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 12:38 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Although this is probably the 5th or 6th time I have said this. Here goes again In my 1G an Commonly in others when either your knock sensor or cabling to the knock sensor is faulty it creates a fault where the car not only feels flat ie loos of power but also has the unmistakable characteristic of piling lots of black smoke out your exhaust and running very rich. If you have not replaced either the knock sensor cable or the knock sensor or preferably both then you can play with whatever you like and still have the same fault. If you wish I can send the e-mall again and explain the full process I went through, but I can tell you now that it is a common fault amongst 1G's Cheers Lee MKII 1G-GTE (missing one turbo) ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:42 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Unlikely to be knock issue. Knock will just retard the timing - I'm 99% sure it has no effect on fueling (not awake enough yet to say 100%). The rest of the diagnosis is honestly quite easy. Go read up on the characteristics of O2 sensors and what it means (basically they put out 0-1volts which indicates whether the mixture is rich or lean - can't get much simpler). Then read up on VF - that's a stepped voltage output from the ECU which tells you whether the ECU is deliberately richening or leaning the mixture. Now if you can't manage to swap an AFM out then I give up :) _____ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:38 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Would it likely be in any way related to my oversensitive knock sensor triggering whenever I accelerate over cats eyes? *sigh* Most of that diagnosis is a little beyond me... Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:33 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Yes, you probably do have most of it. O2 sensor and ECU correction simply require a multimeter. Fuel rail pressure requires a pressure gauge and suitable fitting to mate it to the fuel rail. AFM tends to be a little more difficult, but is easiest to test by swapping in a known good one and driving it for a few days. _____ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:29 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness And of course I have all the equipment to check those...? Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness How about instead of adding a nasty hack like this to the car, that you trace the reason that it's overfueling? A correctly set up car will run rich, but not enough to leave soot behind. You need to check that: - Fuel fail pressure is behaving correctly (should vary between about 37 and 52psi depending on how much manifold vacuum you've got) - Your O2 sensor is delivering believable readings. - Your ECU isn't overcorrecting the mixture for no good reason (check VF voltages) - Your AFM is in good order. Cully _____ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:17 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: [sconz] Solutions for richness Hey all, I was reading one of my old Zoom magazines the other day, and came across a nifty little piece from RSM in australia (from memory) that was basically a mechanical tap for the fuel pressure regulator where you set the point it starts bleeding and also how much it bleeds, to prevent the way most turbo cars run rich with a little boost stuck into them... My question is, does anyone know if theres a local alternative for this? Or anything else I can do to stop the back of my car being covered in black shit apart from splashing out $650 I don't have on an Apexi S-AFC... Cheers :) Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ (html version)

Re: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 13:20:00 <Stuart> On Wed, 05 May 2004 13:12, Hunt M wrote: > Firstly - The oxy sensor is redundant when under medium to high load > anyways Nope, other way around. The Oxy sensor is redundant under high loads (well, high throttle). > Secondly - How can you check the pressure in the fuel rail? With a fuel pressure guage, not cheap. I would only EVER use one with an electronic pressure sensor and a remote guage, so no fuel to the cabin. anything else is a SERIOUS fire risk. > Thirdly - I've tried 3 ECU's and 2 oxy sensors and 2 FPR's and still ALWAYS > have a very thick coat of black soot on the back bumper after 6-800km's Knock sensor repair next? As just described by Lee?

RE: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 13:21:00 <Hunt M> Producing codes whilst driving? As in, the engine light flashes with a code even when driving along? Hunt _____ From: bounce-33370-72@list.supras.org.nz [mailto:bounce-33370-72@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Cully Paterson Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 1:19 p.m. To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness That's pretty much why I didn't point to your knock sensor solution - the fact that Dave's got a 7M which doesn't seem to suffer the same knock sensor problems, and that it's explicitly producing codes while driving seemed to rule it out as an obvious answer. _____ From: Dobson Technical [mailto:dobsontech@xtra.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 12:58 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness To be perfectly honest I never looked for a fault code at the time, but I must also say that I replaced the knock sensor cable on another 1G GA-70 last weekend and it has cured his car also, I dont have any facts or figures to quote you on this I can only speak from personal experience and say including my car this is the third 1G exibiting the rich problem that I have replaced the cable in and it has fixed the problem. On my car I replaced the cable and knock sensor I only mean to say that it seems to be a common fault on 1G's and I now think that maybe due to the angle of the cable or slight twisting of the engine it must fracture the cable over time and this show the common characteristics of loss of power and piles of black smoke. Cheers Lee MKII 1G-GTE (missing one turbo) ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 12:50 PM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Just to clarify Lee, does this fault produce a check engine light when you're driving, or does it only show up when you jumper the diags, or no fault code at all? _____ From: Dobson Technical [mailto:dobsontech@xtra.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 12:38 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Although this is probably the 5th or 6th time I have said this. Here goes again In my 1G an Commonly in others when either your knock sensor or cabling to the knock sensor is faulty it creates a fault where the car not only feels flat ie loos of power but also has the unmistakable characteristic of piling lots of black smoke out your exhaust and running very rich. If you have not replaced either the knock sensor cable or the knock sensor or preferably both then you can play with whatever you like and still have the same fault. If you wish I can send the e-mall again and explain the full process I went through, but I can tell you now that it is a common fault amongst 1G's Cheers Lee MKII 1G-GTE (missing one turbo) ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:42 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Unlikely to be knock issue. Knock will just retard the timing - I'm 99% sure it has no effect on fueling (not awake enough yet to say 100%). The rest of the diagnosis is honestly quite easy. Go read up on the characteristics of O2 sensors and what it means (basically they put out 0-1volts which indicates whether the mixture is rich or lean - can't get much simpler). Then read up on VF - that's a stepped voltage output from the ECU which tells you whether the ECU is deliberately richening or leaning the mixture. Now if you can't manage to swap an AFM out then I give up :) _____ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:38 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Would it likely be in any way related to my oversensitive knock sensor triggering whenever I accelerate over cats eyes? *sigh* Most of that diagnosis is a little beyond me... Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:33 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Yes, you probably do have most of it. O2 sensor and ECU correction simply require a multimeter. Fuel rail pressure requires a pressure gauge and suitable fitting to mate it to the fuel rail. AFM tends to be a little more difficult, but is easiest to test by swapping in a known good one and driving it for a few days. _____ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:29 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness And of course I have all the equipment to check those...? Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness How about instead of adding a nasty hack like this to the car, that you trace the reason that it's overfueling? A correctly set up car will run rich, but not enough to leave soot behind. You need to check that: - Fuel fail pressure is behaving correctly (should vary between about 37 and 52psi depending on how much manifold vacuum you've got) - Your O2 sensor is delivering believable readings. - Your ECU isn't overcorrecting the mixture for no good reason (check VF voltages) - Your AFM is in good order. Cully _____ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:17 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: [sconz] Solutions for richness Hey all, I was reading one of my old Zoom magazines the other day, and came across a nifty little piece from RSM in australia (from memory) that was basically a mechanical tap for the fuel pressure regulator where you set the point it starts bleeding and also how much it bleeds, to prevent the way most turbo cars run rich with a little boost stuck into them... My question is, does anyone know if theres a local alternative for this? Or anything else I can do to stop the back of my car being covered in black shit apart from splashing out $650 I don't have on an Apexi S-AFC... Cheers :) Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ (html version)

Re: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 13:22:00 <Stuart> On Wed, 05 May 2004 13:19, Cully Paterson wrote: > That's pretty much why I didn't point to your knock sensor solution - > the fact that Dave's got a 7M which doesn't seem to suffer the same > knock sensor problems, and that it's explicitly producing codes while > driving seemed to rule it out as an obvious answer. Well, I've known at least 2 7M's with the same problem.. the silly shielded cable to the sensor goes hard and breaks... Some nice teflon jacketed high temp RF cable could be the long term solution. Regards, Stuart W.

RE: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 13:23:00 <Cully Paterson> No - the check engine light comes on, but it'll never actually flash the code. You still have to jumper the diags to receive the code. _____ From: Hunt M [mailto:5uprah@supras.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 1:21 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Producing codes whilst driving? As in, the engine light flashes with a code even when driving along? Hunt _____ From: bounce-33370-72@list.supras.org.nz [mailto:bounce-33370-72@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Cully Paterson Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 1:19 p.m. To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness That's pretty much why I didn't point to your knock sensor solution - the fact that Dave's got a 7M which doesn't seem to suffer the same knock sensor problems, and that it's explicitly producing codes while driving seemed to rule it out as an obvious answer. _____ From: Dobson Technical [mailto:dobsontech@xtra.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 12:58 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness To be perfectly honest I never looked for a fault code at the time, but I must also say that I replaced the knock sensor cable on another 1G GA-70 last weekend and it has cured his car also, I dont have any facts or figures to quote you on this I can only speak from personal experience and say including my car this is the third 1G exibiting the rich problem that I have replaced the cable in and it has fixed the problem. On my car I replaced the cable and knock sensor I only mean to say that it seems to be a common fault on 1G's and I now think that maybe due to the angle of the cable or slight twisting of the engine it must fracture the cable over time and this show the common characteristics of loss of power and piles of black smoke. Cheers Lee MKII 1G-GTE (missing one turbo) ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 12:50 PM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Just to clarify Lee, does this fault produce a check engine light when you're driving, or does it only show up when you jumper the diags, or no fault code at all? _____ From: Dobson Technical [mailto:dobsontech@xtra.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 12:38 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Although this is probably the 5th or 6th time I have said this. Here goes again In my 1G an Commonly in others when either your knock sensor or cabling to the knock sensor is faulty it creates a fault where the car not only feels flat ie loos of power but also has the unmistakable characteristic of piling lots of black smoke out your exhaust and running very rich. If you have not replaced either the knock sensor cable or the knock sensor or preferably both then you can play with whatever you like and still have the same fault. If you wish I can send the e-mall again and explain the full process I went through, but I can tell you now that it is a common fault amongst 1G's Cheers Lee MKII 1G-GTE (missing one turbo) ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:42 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Unlikely to be knock issue. Knock will just retard the timing - I'm 99% sure it has no effect on fueling (not awake enough yet to say 100%). The rest of the diagnosis is honestly quite easy. Go read up on the characteristics of O2 sensors and what it means (basically they put out 0-1volts which indicates whether the mixture is rich or lean - can't get much simpler). Then read up on VF - that's a stepped voltage output from the ECU which tells you whether the ECU is deliberately richening or leaning the mixture. Now if you can't manage to swap an AFM out then I give up :) _____ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:38 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Would it likely be in any way related to my oversensitive knock sensor triggering whenever I accelerate over cats eyes? *sigh* Most of that diagnosis is a little beyond me... Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:33 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Yes, you probably do have most of it. O2 sensor and ECU correction simply require a multimeter. Fuel rail pressure requires a pressure gauge and suitable fitting to mate it to the fuel rail. AFM tends to be a little more difficult, but is easiest to test by swapping in a known good one and driving it for a few days. _____ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:29 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness And of course I have all the equipment to check those...? Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness How about instead of adding a nasty hack like this to the car, that you trace the reason that it's overfueling? A correctly set up car will run rich, but not enough to leave soot behind. You need to check that: - Fuel fail pressure is behaving correctly (should vary between about 37 and 52psi depending on how much manifold vacuum you've got) - Your O2 sensor is delivering believable readings. - Your ECU isn't overcorrecting the mixture for no good reason (check VF voltages) - Your AFM is in good order. Cully _____ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:17 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: [sconz] Solutions for richness Hey all, I was reading one of my old Zoom magazines the other day, and came across a nifty little piece from RSM in australia (from memory) that was basically a mechanical tap for the fuel pressure regulator where you set the point it starts bleeding and also how much it bleeds, to prevent the way most turbo cars run rich with a little boost stuck into them... My question is, does anyone know if theres a local alternative for this? Or anything else I can do to stop the back of my car being covered in black shit apart from splashing out $650 I don't have on an Apexi S-AFC... Cheers :) Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ (html version)

RE: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 13:25:00 <Cully Paterson> > Well, I've known at least 2 7M's with the same problem.. the > silly shielded cable to the sensor goes hard and breaks... > Some nice teflon jacketed high temp RF cable could be the > long term solution. Interesting, first time I've come across that. Who's cars were they? Guess that's something else to add to my long list of preventative stuff that's going to happen during this rebuild... Cully

RE: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 13:26:00 <Doig, Richard> Also standard GT-Four failure. I suspect my ST165 suffered from it on occassions, including on very very wet rally of NZ. On GT-Four car will run but as soon as you boost it will bog down big time. Richard > Well, I've known at least 2 7M's with the same problem.. the > silly shielded > cable to the sensor goes hard and breaks... > Some nice teflon jacketed high temp RF cable could be the > long term solution. > > Regards, > Stuart W. > > --- > Supra Club of New Zealand > http://www.supras.org.nz/ > ____________________________________________________________________ CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee named above. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error please notify Air New Zealand immediately. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Air New Zealand. _____________________________________________________________________ For more information on the Air New Zealand Group, visit us online at http://www.airnewzealand.com _____________________________________________________________________

RE: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 13:27:00 <Doig, Richard> And remember that not all stored codes actually cause the check engine light to flash... -----Original Message----- From: bounce-33374-27@list.supras.org.nz [mailto:bounce-33374-27@list.supras.org.nz]On Behalf Of Cully Paterson Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 13:23 To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness No - the check engine light comes on, but it'll never actually flash the code. You still have to jumper the diags to receive the code. _____ From: Hunt M [mailto:5uprah@supras.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 1:21 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Producing codes whilst driving? As in, the engine light flashes with a code even when driving along? Hunt _____ From: bounce-33370-72@list.supras.org.nz [mailto:bounce-33370-72@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Cully Paterson Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 1:19 p.m. To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness That's pretty much why I didn't point to your knock sensor solution - the fact that Dave's got a 7M which doesn't seem to suffer the same knock sensor problems, and that it's explicitly producing codes while driving seemed to rule it out as an obvious answer. _____ From: Dobson Technical [mailto:dobsontech@xtra.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 12:58 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness To be perfectly honest I never looked for a fault code at the time, but I must also say that I replaced the knock sensor cable on another 1G GA-70 last weekend and it has cured his car also, I dont have any facts or figures to quote you on this I can only speak from personal experience and say including my car this is the third 1G exibiting the rich problem that I have replaced the cable in and it has fixed the problem. On my car I replaced the cable and knock sensor I only mean to say that it seems to be a common fault on 1G's and I now think that maybe due to the angle of the cable or slight twisting of the engine it must fracture the cable over time and this show the common characteristics of loss of power and piles of black smoke. Cheers Lee MKII 1G-GTE (missing one turbo) ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 12:50 PM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Just to clarify Lee, does this fault produce a check engine light when you're driving, or does it only show up when you jumper the diags, or no fault code at all? _____ From: Dobson Technical [ mailto:dobsontech@xtra.co.nz <mailto:dobsontech@xtra.co.nz> ] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 12:38 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Although this is probably the 5th or 6th time I have said this. Here goes again In my 1G an Commonly in others when either your knock sensor or cabling to the knock sensor is faulty it creates a fault where the car not only feels flat ie loos of power but also has the unmistakable characteristic of piling lots of black smoke out your exhaust and running very rich. If you have not replaced either the knock sensor cable or the knock sensor or preferably both then you can play with whatever you like and still have the same fault. If you wish I can send the e-mall again and explain the full process I went through, but I can tell you now that it is a common fault amongst 1G's Cheers Lee MKII 1G-GTE (missing one turbo) ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:42 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Unlikely to be knock issue. Knock will just retard the timing - I'm 99% sure it has no effect on fueling (not awake enough yet to say 100%). The rest of the diagnosis is honestly quite easy. Go read up on the characteristics of O2 sensors and what it means (basically they put out 0-1volts which indicates whether the mixture is rich or lean - can't get much simpler). Then read up on VF - that's a stepped voltage output from the ECU which tells you whether the ECU is deliberately richening or leaning the mixture. Now if you can't manage to swap an AFM out then I give up :) _____ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:38 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Would it likely be in any way related to my oversensitive knock sensor triggering whenever I accelerate over cats eyes? *sigh* Most of that diagnosis is a little beyond me... Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:33 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Yes, you probably do have most of it. O2 sensor and ECU correction simply require a multimeter. Fuel rail pressure requires a pressure gauge and suitable fitting to mate it to the fuel rail. AFM tends to be a little more difficult, but is easiest to test by swapping in a known good one and driving it for a few days. _____ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:29 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness And of course I have all the equipment to check those...? Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra Club of NZ <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness How about instead of adding a nasty hack like this to the car, that you trace the reason that it's overfueling? A correctly set up car will run rich, but not enough to leave soot behind. You need to check that: - Fuel fail pressure is behaving correctly (should vary between about 37 and 52psi depending on how much manifold vacuum you've got) - Your O2 sensor is delivering believable readings. - Your ECU isn't overcorrecting the mixture for no good reason (check VF voltages) - Your AFM is in good order. Cully _____ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:17 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: [sconz] Solutions for richness Hey all, I was reading one of my old Zoom magazines the other day, and came across a nifty little piece from RSM in australia (from memory) that was basically a mechanical tap for the fuel pressure regulator where you set the point it starts bleeding and also how much it bleeds, to prevent the way most turbo cars run rich with a little boost stuck into them... My question is, does anyone know if theres a local alternative for this? Or anything else I can do to stop the back of my car being covered in black shit apart from splashing out $650 I don't have on an Apexi S-AFC... Cheers :) Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ ____________________________________________________________________ CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee named above. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error please notify Air New Zealand immediately. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Air New Zealand. _____________________________________________________________________ For more information on the Air New Zealand Group, visit us online at http://www.airnewzealand.com _____________________________________________________________________

Re: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 13:32:00 <Stuart> On Wed, 05 May 2004 13:25, Cully Paterson wrote: > > Well, I've known at least 2 7M's with the same problem.. the > > silly shielded cable to the sensor goes hard and breaks... > > Some nice teflon jacketed high temp RF cable could be the > > long term solution. > > Interesting, first time I've come across that. Who's cars were they? Two in the US, back when.. Had confirmed open-circuit wires to one of their knock sensors. > Guess that's something else to add to my long list of preventative stuff > that's going to happen during this rebuild... Also had some trouble on the white car, but never confirmed exactly what caused it.. cleaned up the knock sensor connectors as part of the fix.

RE: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 13:35:00 <Doig, Richard> I remember this was a known MA71 issue waaaaay back when I was on the US Supra list (1996-1997?). > -----Original Message----- > From: bounce-33375-27@list.supras.org.nz > [mailto:bounce-33375-27@list.supras.org.nz]On Behalf Of Cully Paterson > Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 13:25 > To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List > Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness > > > > > Well, I've known at least 2 7M's with the same problem.. the > > silly shielded cable to the sensor goes hard and breaks... > > Some nice teflon jacketed high temp RF cable could be the > > long term solution. > > Interesting, first time I've come across that. Who's cars were they? > > Guess that's something else to add to my long list of > preventative stuff > that's going to happen during this rebuild... > > Cully > > --- > Supra Club of New Zealand > http://www.supras.org.nz/ > ____________________________________________________________________ CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee named above. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error please notify Air New Zealand immediately. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of Air New Zealand. _____________________________________________________________________ For more information on the Air New Zealand Group, visit us online at http://www.airnewzealand.com _____________________________________________________________________

RE: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 14:00:00 <Marc Archbold> Quoting Cully Paterson <Cully@supras.org.nz>: > Unlikely to be knock issue. Knock will just retard the timing - I'm 99% > sure it has no effect on fueling (not awake enough yet to say 100%). > Lee's car did exactly as described when the knock sensor was faulty. I understand your thought here, but that was the case with Lee's. Perhaps the fuel trim goes quite rich with this condition. - Marc

Re: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 14:01:00 <John Rosser> dave thorm has a 1g-gte in his soarer, and i think in his supra as well. not sure on the supra... john ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:19 PM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness That's pretty much why I didn't point to your knock sensor solution - the fact that Dave's got a 7M which doesn't seem to suffer the same knock sensor problems, and that it's explicitly producing codes while driving seemed to rule it out as an obvious answer. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dobson Technical [mailto:dobsontech@xtra.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 12:58 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness To be perfectly honest I never looked for a fault code at the time, but I must also say that I replaced the knock sensor cable on another 1G GA-70 last weekend and it has cured his car also, I dont have any facts or figures to quote you on this I can only speak from personal experience and say including my car this is the third 1G exibiting the rich problem that I have replaced the cable in and it has fixed the problem. On my car I replaced the cable and knock sensor I only mean to say that it seems to be a common fault on 1G's and I now think that maybe due to the angle of the cable or slight twisting of the engine it must fracture the cable over time and this show the common characteristics of loss of power and piles of black smoke. Cheers Lee MKII 1G-GTE (missing one turbo) ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 12:50 PM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Just to clarify Lee, does this fault produce a check engine light when you're driving, or does it only show up when you jumper the diags, or no fault code at all? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Dobson Technical [mailto:dobsontech@xtra.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 12:38 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Although this is probably the 5th or 6th time I have said this. Here goes again In my 1G an Commonly in others when either your knock sensor or cabling to the knock sensor is faulty it creates a fault where the car not only feels flat ie loos of power but also has the unmistakable characteristic of piling lots of black smoke out your exhaust and running very rich. If you have not replaced either the knock sensor cable or the knock sensor or preferably both then you can play with whatever you like and still have the same fault. If you wish I can send the e-mall again and explain the full process I went through, but I can tell you now that it is a common fault amongst 1G's Cheers Lee MKII 1G-GTE (missing one turbo) ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:42 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Unlikely to be knock issue. Knock will just retard the timing - I'm 99% sure it has no effect on fueling (not awake enough yet to say 100%). The rest of the diagnosis is honestly quite easy. Go read up on the characteristics of O2 sensors and what it means (basically they put out 0-1volts which indicates whether the mixture is rich or lean - can't get much simpler). Then read up on VF - that's a stepped voltage output from the ECU which tells you whether the ECU is deliberately richening or leaning the mixture. Now if you can't manage to swap an AFM out then I give up :) -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:38 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Would it likely be in any way related to my oversensitive knock sensor triggering whenever I accelerate over cats eyes? *sigh* Most of that diagnosis is a little beyond me... Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:33 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Yes, you probably do have most of it. O2 sensor and ECU correction simply require a multimeter. Fuel rail pressure requires a pressure gauge and suitable fitting to mate it to the fuel rail. AFM tends to be a little more difficult, but is easiest to test by swapping in a known good one and driving it for a few days. ---------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:29 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness And of course I have all the equipment to check those...? Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness How about instead of adding a nasty hack like this to the car, that you trace the reason that it's overfueling? A correctly set up car will run rich, but not enough to leave soot behind. You need to check that: - Fuel fail pressure is behaving correctly (should vary between about 37 and 52psi depending on how much manifold vacuum you've got) - Your O2 sensor is delivering believable readings. - Your ECU isn't overcorrecting the mixture for no good reason (check VF voltages) - Your AFM is in good order. Cully ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:17 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: [sconz] Solutions for richness Hey all, I was reading one of my old Zoom magazines the other day, and came across a nifty little piece from RSM in australia (from memory) that was basically a mechanical tap for the fuel pressure regulator where you set the point it starts bleeding and also how much it bleeds, to prevent the way most turbo cars run rich with a little boost stuck into them... My question is, does anyone know if theres a local alternative for this? Or anything else I can do to stop the back of my car being covered in black shit apart from splashing out $650 I don't have on an Apexi S-AFC... Cheers :) Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ (html version)

Re: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 14:02:00 <Marc Archbold> It did not set a code. I checked :) I must also say I hounded Lee for *ages* about checking the Knock sensor.... :) > To be perfectly honest I never looked for a fault code at the time, but > I must also say that I replaced the knock sensor cable on another 1G > GA-70 last weekend and it has cured his car also, I dont have any facts > or figures to quote you on this I can only speak from personal > experience and say including my car this is the third 1G exibiting the > rich problem that I have replaced the cable in and it has fixed the > problem. On my car I replaced the cable and knock sensor > > I only mean to say that it seems to be a common fault on 1G's and I now > think that maybe due to the angle of the cable or slight twisting of the > engine it must fracture the cable over time and this show the common > characteristics of loss of power and piles of black smoke. > > Cheers > Lee MKII 1G-GTE (missing one turbo) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Cully Paterson > To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 12:50 PM > Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness

RE: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 14:03:00 <Marc Archbold> Try 4. I replaced the knock sensor and cabling. Cheers, Marc > Firstly - The oxy sensor is redundant when under medium to high load > anyways > > Secondly - How can you check the pressure in the fuel rail? > > Thirdly - I've tried 3 ECU's and 2 oxy sensors and 2 FPR's and still > ALWAYS > have a very thick coat of black soot on the back bumper after 6-800km's > > And lastly - Cant be an injector sticking surely as you checked them out > not > long ago. > > > > Any ideas?? > > > > Cheers > > Hunt > > > > _____ > > From: bounce-33356-72@list.supras.org.nz > [mailto:bounce-33356-72@list.supras. org.nz] On Behalf Of Cully > Paterson > Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:26 a.m. > To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List > Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness > > > > How about instead of adding a nasty hack like this to the car, that you > trace the reason that it's overfueling? A correctly set up car will run > rich, but not enough to leave soot behind. You need to check that: > > - Fuel fail pressure is behaving correctly (should vary between about 37 > and > 52psi depending on how much manifold vacuum you've got) > > - Your O2 sensor is delivering believable readings. > > - Your ECU isn't overcorrecting the mixture for no good reason (check > VF > voltages) > > - Your AFM is in good order. > > > > Cully > > > > > > > _____ > > > From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] > Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:17 a.m. > To: SCONZ.list Forward > Subject: [sconz] Solutions for richness > > Hey all, I was reading one of my old Zoom magazines the other day, and > came > across a nifty little piece from RSM in australia (from memory) that > was > basically a mechanical tap for the fuel pressure regulator where you set > the > point it starts bleeding and also how much it bleeds, to prevent the > way > most turbo cars run rich with a little boost stuck into them... > > > > My question is, does anyone know if theres a local alternative for this? > Or > anything else I can do to stop the back of my car being covered in > black > shit apart from splashing out $650 I don't have on an Apexi S-AFC... > > > > Cheers :) > > > Regards > > > > Dave Thom > IT Engineer > 021 140 4657 > > --- > Supra Club of New Zealand > http://www.supras.org.nz/ > > --- > Supra Club of New Zealand > http://www.supras.org.nz/ > > > > --- > Supra Club of New Zealand > http://www.supras.org.nz/ >

	RE: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 14:05:00 <Marc Archbold> Exactly the symptom Lee's car exibited. >On GT-Four car will run but as soon as you boost it will bog down big > time. > > Richard > >

RE: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 14:13:00 <Cully Paterson> The Supra's a 7M. But then again Dave, you didn't specify which car had the fault...? _____ From: John Rosser Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 2:00 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness dave thorm has a 1g-gte in his soarer, and i think in his supra as well. not sure on the supra... john ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:19 PM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness That's pretty much why I didn't point to your knock sensor solution - the fact that Dave's got a 7M which doesn't seem to suffer the same knock sensor problems, and that it's explicitly producing codes while driving seemed to rule it out as an obvious answer. _____ From: Dobson Technical [mailto:dobsontech@xtra.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 12:58 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness To be perfectly honest I never looked for a fault code at the time, but I must also say that I replaced the knock sensor cable on another 1G GA-70 last weekend and it has cured his car also, I dont have any facts or figures to quote you on this I can only speak from personal experience and say including my car this is the third 1G exibiting the rich problem that I have replaced the cable in and it has fixed the problem. On my car I replaced the cable and knock sensor I only mean to say that it seems to be a common fault on 1G's and I now think that maybe due to the angle of the cable or slight twisting of the engine it must fracture the cable over time and this show the common characteristics of loss of power and piles of black smoke. Cheers Lee MKII 1G-GTE (missing one turbo) ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 12:50 PM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Just to clarify Lee, does this fault produce a check engine light when you're driving, or does it only show up when you jumper the diags, or no fault code at all? _____ From: Dobson Technical [mailto:dobsontech@xtra.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 12:38 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Although this is probably the 5th or 6th time I have said this. Here goes again In my 1G an Commonly in others when either your knock sensor or cabling to the knock sensor is faulty it creates a fault where the car not only feels flat ie loos of power but also has the unmistakable characteristic of piling lots of black smoke out your exhaust and running very rich. If you have not replaced either the knock sensor cable or the knock sensor or preferably both then you can play with whatever you like and still have the same fault. If you wish I can send the e-mall again and explain the full process I went through, but I can tell you now that it is a common fault amongst 1G's Cheers Lee MKII 1G-GTE (missing one turbo) ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:42 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Unlikely to be knock issue. Knock will just retard the timing - I'm 99% sure it has no effect on fueling (not awake enough yet to say 100%). The rest of the diagnosis is honestly quite easy. Go read up on the characteristics of O2 sensors and what it means (basically they put out 0-1volts which indicates whether the mixture is rich or lean - can't get much simpler). Then read up on VF - that's a stepped voltage output from the ECU which tells you whether the ECU is deliberately richening or leaning the mixture. Now if you can't manage to swap an AFM out then I give up :) _____ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:38 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Would it likely be in any way related to my oversensitive knock sensor triggering whenever I accelerate over cats eyes? *sigh* Most of that diagnosis is a little beyond me... Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:33 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Yes, you probably do have most of it. O2 sensor and ECU correction simply require a multimeter. Fuel rail pressure requires a pressure gauge and suitable fitting to mate it to the fuel rail. AFM tends to be a little more difficult, but is easiest to test by swapping in a known good one and driving it for a few days. _____ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:29 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness And of course I have all the equipment to check those...? Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness How about instead of adding a nasty hack like this to the car, that you trace the reason that it's overfueling? A correctly set up car will run rich, but not enough to leave soot behind. You need to check that: - Fuel fail pressure is behaving correctly (should vary between about 37 and 52psi depending on how much manifold vacuum you've got) - Your O2 sensor is delivering believable readings. - Your ECU isn't overcorrecting the mixture for no good reason (check VF voltages) - Your AFM is in good order. Cully _____ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:17 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: [sconz] Solutions for richness Hey all, I was reading one of my old Zoom magazines the other day, and came across a nifty little piece from RSM in australia (from memory) that was basically a mechanical tap for the fuel pressure regulator where you set the point it starts bleeding and also how much it bleeds, to prevent the way most turbo cars run rich with a little boost stuck into them... My question is, does anyone know if theres a local alternative for this? Or anything else I can do to stop the back of my car being covered in black shit apart from splashing out $650 I don't have on an Apexi S-AFC... Cheers :) Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ (html version)

Re: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 14:16:00 <John Rosser> heh, i had a similar problem on my 7m, turned out to be the fact that i blew an intercooler pipe in half :s (thanks suze :) ) john ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Archbold" <marc.a@paradise.net.nz> To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 2:05 PM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness > > > Exactly the symptom Lee's car exibited. > > > > > >On GT-Four car will run but as soon as you boost it will bog down big > > time. > > > > Richard > > > > > > --- > Supra Club of New Zealand > http://www.supras.org.nz/

Re: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 14:18:00 <John Rosser> i think he mainly drives the soarer, the supra he's lent to a friend i think (still too early to be thinking straight) john ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 2:13 PM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness The Supra's a 7M. But then again Dave, you didn't specify which car had the fault...? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Rosser Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 2:00 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness dave thorm has a 1g-gte in his soarer, and i think in his supra as well. not sure on the supra... john ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:19 PM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness That's pretty much why I didn't point to your knock sensor solution - the fact that Dave's got a 7M which doesn't seem to suffer the same knock sensor problems, and that it's explicitly producing codes while driving seemed to rule it out as an obvious answer. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Dobson Technical [mailto:dobsontech@xtra.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 12:58 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness To be perfectly honest I never looked for a fault code at the time, but I must also say that I replaced the knock sensor cable on another 1G GA-70 last weekend and it has cured his car also, I dont have any facts or figures to quote you on this I can only speak from personal experience and say including my car this is the third 1G exibiting the rich problem that I have replaced the cable in and it has fixed the problem. On my car I replaced the cable and knock sensor I only mean to say that it seems to be a common fault on 1G's and I now think that maybe due to the angle of the cable or slight twisting of the engine it must fracture the cable over time and this show the common characteristics of loss of power and piles of black smoke. Cheers Lee MKII 1G-GTE (missing one turbo) ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 12:50 PM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Just to clarify Lee, does this fault produce a check engine light when you're driving, or does it only show up when you jumper the diags, or no fault code at all? -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dobson Technical [mailto:dobsontech@xtra.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 12:38 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Although this is probably the 5th or 6th time I have said this. Here goes again In my 1G an Commonly in others when either your knock sensor or cabling to the knock sensor is faulty it creates a fault where the car not only feels flat ie loos of power but also has the unmistakable characteristic of piling lots of black smoke out your exhaust and running very rich. If you have not replaced either the knock sensor cable or the knock sensor or preferably both then you can play with whatever you like and still have the same fault. If you wish I can send the e-mall again and explain the full process I went through, but I can tell you now that it is a common fault amongst 1G's Cheers Lee MKII 1G-GTE (missing one turbo) ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:42 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Unlikely to be knock issue. Knock will just retard the timing - I'm 99% sure it has no effect on fueling (not awake enough yet to say 100%). The rest of the diagnosis is honestly quite easy. Go read up on the characteristics of O2 sensors and what it means (basically they put out 0-1volts which indicates whether the mixture is rich or lean - can't get much simpler). Then read up on VF - that's a stepped voltage output from the ECU which tells you whether the ECU is deliberately richening or leaning the mixture. Now if you can't manage to swap an AFM out then I give up :) ---------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:38 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Would it likely be in any way related to my oversensitive knock sensor triggering whenever I accelerate over cats eyes? *sigh* Most of that diagnosis is a little beyond me... Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:33 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Yes, you probably do have most of it. O2 sensor and ECU correction simply require a multimeter. Fuel rail pressure requires a pressure gauge and suitable fitting to mate it to the fuel rail. AFM tends to be a little more difficult, but is easiest to test by swapping in a known good one and driving it for a few days. ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:29 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness And of course I have all the equipment to check those...? Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness How about instead of adding a nasty hack like this to the car, that you trace the reason that it's overfueling? A correctly set up car will run rich, but not enough to leave soot behind. You need to check that: - Fuel fail pressure is behaving correctly (should vary between about 37 and 52psi depending on how much manifold vacuum you've got) - Your O2 sensor is delivering believable readings. - Your ECU isn't overcorrecting the mixture for no good reason (check VF voltages) - Your AFM is in good order. Cully -------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:17 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: [sconz] Solutions for richness Hey all, I was reading one of my old Zoom magazines the other day, and came across a nifty little piece from RSM in australia (from memory) that was basically a mechanical tap for the fuel pressure regulator where you set the point it starts bleeding and also how much it bleeds, to prevent the way most turbo cars run rich with a little boost stuck into them... My question is, does anyone know if theres a local alternative for this? Or anything else I can do to stop the back of my car being covered in black shit apart from splashing out $650 I don't have on an Apexi S-AFC... Cheers :) Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ (html version)

Re: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 14:24:00 <John Rosser> found an old post when he was trying to sell it, it's a ga70 as well. john ----- Original Message ----- From: John Rosser To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness i think he mainly drives the soarer, the supra he's lent to a friend i think (still too early to be thinking straight) john ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 2:13 PM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness The Supra's a 7M. But then again Dave, you didn't specify which car had the fault...? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Rosser Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 2:00 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness dave thorm has a 1g-gte in his soarer, and i think in his supra as well. not sure on the supra... john ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:19 PM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness That's pretty much why I didn't point to your knock sensor solution - the fact that Dave's got a 7M which doesn't seem to suffer the same knock sensor problems, and that it's explicitly producing codes while driving seemed to rule it out as an obvious answer. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dobson Technical [mailto:dobsontech@xtra.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 12:58 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness To be perfectly honest I never looked for a fault code at the time, but I must also say that I replaced the knock sensor cable on another 1G GA-70 last weekend and it has cured his car also, I dont have any facts or figures to quote you on this I can only speak from personal experience and say including my car this is the third 1G exibiting the rich problem that I have replaced the cable in and it has fixed the problem. On my car I replaced the cable and knock sensor I only mean to say that it seems to be a common fault on 1G's and I now think that maybe due to the angle of the cable or slight twisting of the engine it must fracture the cable over time and this show the common characteristics of loss of power and piles of black smoke. Cheers Lee MKII 1G-GTE (missing one turbo) ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 12:50 PM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Just to clarify Lee, does this fault produce a check engine light when you're driving, or does it only show up when you jumper the diags, or no fault code at all? ------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Dobson Technical [mailto:dobsontech@xtra.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 12:38 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Although this is probably the 5th or 6th time I have said this. Here goes again In my 1G an Commonly in others when either your knock sensor or cabling to the knock sensor is faulty it creates a fault where the car not only feels flat ie loos of power but also has the unmistakable characteristic of piling lots of black smoke out your exhaust and running very rich. If you have not replaced either the knock sensor cable or the knock sensor or preferably both then you can play with whatever you like and still have the same fault. If you wish I can send the e-mall again and explain the full process I went through, but I can tell you now that it is a common fault amongst 1G's Cheers Lee MKII 1G-GTE (missing one turbo) ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:42 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Unlikely to be knock issue. Knock will just retard the timing - I'm 99% sure it has no effect on fueling (not awake enough yet to say 100%). The rest of the diagnosis is honestly quite easy. Go read up on the characteristics of O2 sensors and what it means (basically they put out 0-1volts which indicates whether the mixture is rich or lean - can't get much simpler). Then read up on VF - that's a stepped voltage output from the ECU which tells you whether the ECU is deliberately richening or leaning the mixture. Now if you can't manage to swap an AFM out then I give up :) -------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:38 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Would it likely be in any way related to my oversensitive knock sensor triggering whenever I accelerate over cats eyes? *sigh* Most of that diagnosis is a little beyond me... Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:33 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Yes, you probably do have most of it. O2 sensor and ECU correction simply require a multimeter. Fuel rail pressure requires a pressure gauge and suitable fitting to mate it to the fuel rail. AFM tends to be a little more difficult, but is easiest to test by swapping in a known good one and driving it for a few days. ---------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:29 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness And of course I have all the equipment to check those...? Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness How about instead of adding a nasty hack like this to the car, that you trace the reason that it's overfueling? A correctly set up car will run rich, but not enough to leave soot behind. You need to check that: - Fuel fail pressure is behaving correctly (should vary between about 37 and 52psi depending on how much manifold vacuum you've got) - Your O2 sensor is delivering believable readings. - Your ECU isn't overcorrecting the mixture for no good reason (check VF voltages) - Your AFM is in good order. Cully ------------------------------------------------------ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:17 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: [sconz] Solutions for richness Hey all, I was reading one of my old Zoom magazines the other day, and came across a nifty little piece from RSM in australia (from memory) that was basically a mechanical tap for the fuel pressure regulator where you set the point it starts bleeding and also how much it bleeds, to prevent the way most turbo cars run rich with a little boost stuck into them... My question is, does anyone know if theres a local alternative for this? Or anything else I can do to stop the back of my car being covered in black shit apart from splashing out $650 I don't have on an Apexi S-AFC... Cheers :) Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ (html version)

RE: Solutions for richness   2004-05-05 14:35:00 <Cully Paterson> Hmm, from the photos it's got a 3.0 turbo badge on the front, aerotop, digi dash. That's all very MA70 stuff....? _____ From: John Rosser Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 2:22 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness found an old post when he was trying to sell it, it's a ga70 as well. john ----- Original Message ----- From: John Rosser <mailto:John_Rosser@supras.org.nz> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness i think he mainly drives the soarer, the supra he's lent to a friend i think (still too early to be thinking straight) john ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 2:13 PM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness The Supra's a 7M. But then again Dave, you didn't specify which car had the fault...? _____ From: John Rosser Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 2:00 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness dave thorm has a 1g-gte in his soarer, and i think in his supra as well. not sure on the supra... john ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:19 PM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness That's pretty much why I didn't point to your knock sensor solution - the fact that Dave's got a 7M which doesn't seem to suffer the same knock sensor problems, and that it's explicitly producing codes while driving seemed to rule it out as an obvious answer. _____ From: Dobson Technical [mailto:dobsontech@xtra.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 12:58 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness To be perfectly honest I never looked for a fault code at the time, but I must also say that I replaced the knock sensor cable on another 1G GA-70 last weekend and it has cured his car also, I dont have any facts or figures to quote you on this I can only speak from personal experience and say including my car this is the third 1G exibiting the rich problem that I have replaced the cable in and it has fixed the problem. On my car I replaced the cable and knock sensor I only mean to say that it seems to be a common fault on 1G's and I now think that maybe due to the angle of the cable or slight twisting of the engine it must fracture the cable over time and this show the common characteristics of loss of power and piles of black smoke. Cheers Lee MKII 1G-GTE (missing one turbo) ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 12:50 PM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Just to clarify Lee, does this fault produce a check engine light when you're driving, or does it only show up when you jumper the diags, or no fault code at all? _____ From: Dobson Technical [mailto:dobsontech@xtra.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 12:38 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Although this is probably the 5th or 6th time I have said this. Here goes again In my 1G an Commonly in others when either your knock sensor or cabling to the knock sensor is faulty it creates a fault where the car not only feels flat ie loos of power but also has the unmistakable characteristic of piling lots of black smoke out your exhaust and running very rich. If you have not replaced either the knock sensor cable or the knock sensor or preferably both then you can play with whatever you like and still have the same fault. If you wish I can send the e-mall again and explain the full process I went through, but I can tell you now that it is a common fault amongst 1G's Cheers Lee MKII 1G-GTE (missing one turbo) ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:42 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Unlikely to be knock issue. Knock will just retard the timing - I'm 99% sure it has no effect on fueling (not awake enough yet to say 100%). The rest of the diagnosis is honestly quite easy. Go read up on the characteristics of O2 sensors and what it means (basically they put out 0-1volts which indicates whether the mixture is rich or lean - can't get much simpler). Then read up on VF - that's a stepped voltage output from the ECU which tells you whether the ECU is deliberately richening or leaning the mixture. Now if you can't manage to swap an AFM out then I give up :) _____ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:38 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Would it likely be in any way related to my oversensitive knock sensor triggering whenever I accelerate over cats eyes? *sigh* Most of that diagnosis is a little beyond me... Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:33 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Yes, you probably do have most of it. O2 sensor and ECU correction simply require a multimeter. Fuel rail pressure requires a pressure gauge and suitable fitting to mate it to the fuel rail. AFM tends to be a little more difficult, but is easiest to test by swapping in a known good one and driving it for a few days. _____ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:29 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness And of course I have all the equipment to check those...? Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson <mailto:Cully@supras.org.nz> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness How about instead of adding a nasty hack like this to the car, that you trace the reason that it's overfueling? A correctly set up car will run rich, but not enough to leave soot behind. You need to check that: - Fuel fail pressure is behaving correctly (should vary between about 37 and 52psi depending on how much manifold vacuum you've got) - Your O2 sensor is delivering believable readings. - Your ECU isn't overcorrecting the mixture for no good reason (check VF voltages) - Your AFM is in good order. Cully _____ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:17 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: [sconz] Solutions for richness Hey all, I was reading one of my old Zoom magazines the other day, and came across a nifty little piece from RSM in australia (from memory) that was basically a mechanical tap for the fuel pressure regulator where you set the point it starts bleeding and also how much it bleeds, to prevent the way most turbo cars run rich with a little boost stuck into them... My question is, does anyone know if theres a local alternative for this? Or anything else I can do to stop the back of my car being covered in black shit apart from splashing out $650 I don't have on an Apexi S-AFC... Cheers :) Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ (html version)

Re: Solutions for richness   2004-05-06 07:51:00 <Dave Thom> Heh... I apologise for the rice from the previous japanese owner Cully, the supra is a GA70 with MA70 facelift front bumper... but I'm not having problems with that, a friend is driving it as his daily driver because I can't store two cars at my house, I drive the GZ20 and am having the problems in this... Also note there were engine pics included in all those so you should have picked it as a 1g :P I'll get onto all the problems with the Supra once the Soarer is sorted out :) Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 2:35 PM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Hmm, from the photos it's got a 3.0 turbo badge on the front, aerotop, digi dash. That's all very MA70 stuff....? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Rosser Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 2:22 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness found an old post when he was trying to sell it, it's a ga70 as well. john ----- Original Message ----- From: John Rosser To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness i think he mainly drives the soarer, the supra he's lent to a friend i think (still too early to be thinking straight) john ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 2:13 PM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness The Supra's a 7M. But then again Dave, you didn't specify which car had the fault...? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Rosser Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 2:00 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness dave thorm has a 1g-gte in his soarer, and i think in his supra as well. not sure on the supra... john ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:19 PM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness That's pretty much why I didn't point to your knock sensor solution - the fact that Dave's got a 7M which doesn't seem to suffer the same knock sensor problems, and that it's explicitly producing codes while driving seemed to rule it out as an obvious answer. ------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Dobson Technical [mailto:dobsontech@xtra.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 12:58 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness To be perfectly honest I never looked for a fault code at the time, but I must also say that I replaced the knock sensor cable on another 1G GA-70 last weekend and it has cured his car also, I dont have any facts or figures to quote you on this I can only speak from personal experience and say including my car this is the third 1G exibiting the rich problem that I have replaced the cable in and it has fixed the problem. On my car I replaced the cable and knock sensor I only mean to say that it seems to be a common fault on 1G's and I now think that maybe due to the angle of the cable or slight twisting of the engine it must fracture the cable over time and this show the common characteristics of loss of power and piles of black smoke. Cheers Lee MKII 1G-GTE (missing one turbo) ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 12:50 PM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Just to clarify Lee, does this fault produce a check engine light when you're driving, or does it only show up when you jumper the diags, or no fault code at all? -------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dobson Technical [mailto:dobsontech@xtra.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 12:38 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Although this is probably the 5th or 6th time I have said this. Here goes again In my 1G an Commonly in others when either your knock sensor or cabling to the knock sensor is faulty it creates a fault where the car not only feels flat ie loos of power but also has the unmistakable characteristic of piling lots of black smoke out your exhaust and running very rich. If you have not replaced either the knock sensor cable or the knock sensor or preferably both then you can play with whatever you like and still have the same fault. If you wish I can send the e-mall again and explain the full process I went through, but I can tell you now that it is a common fault amongst 1G's Cheers Lee MKII 1G-GTE (missing one turbo) ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:42 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Unlikely to be knock issue. Knock will just retard the timing - I'm 99% sure it has no effect on fueling (not awake enough yet to say 100%). The rest of the diagnosis is honestly quite easy. Go read up on the characteristics of O2 sensors and what it means (basically they put out 0-1volts which indicates whether the mixture is rich or lean - can't get much simpler). Then read up on VF - that's a stepped voltage output from the ECU which tells you whether the ECU is deliberately richening or leaning the mixture. Now if you can't manage to swap an AFM out then I give up :) ---------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:38 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Would it likely be in any way related to my oversensitive knock sensor triggering whenever I accelerate over cats eyes? *sigh* Most of that diagnosis is a little beyond me... Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:33 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Yes, you probably do have most of it. O2 sensor and ECU correction simply require a multimeter. Fuel rail pressure requires a pressure gauge and suitable fitting to mate it to the fuel rail. AFM tends to be a little more difficult, but is easiest to test by swapping in a known good one and driving it for a few days. ------------------------------------------------------ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:29 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness And of course I have all the equipment to check those...? Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness How about instead of adding a nasty hack like this to the car, that you trace the reason that it's overfueling? A correctly set up car will run rich, but not enough to leave soot behind. You need to check that: - Fuel fail pressure is behaving correctly (should vary between about 37 and 52psi depending on how much manifold vacuum you've got) - Your O2 sensor is delivering believable readings. - Your ECU isn't overcorrecting the mixture for no good reason (check VF voltages) - Your AFM is in good order. Cully -------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:17 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: [sconz] Solutions for richness Hey all, I was reading one of my old Zoom magazines the other day, and came across a nifty little piece from RSM in australia (from memory) that was basically a mechanical tap for the fuel pressure regulator where you set the point it starts bleeding and also how much it bleeds, to prevent the way most turbo cars run rich with a little boost stuck into them... My question is, does anyone know if theres a local alternative for this? Or anything else I can do to stop the back of my car being covered in black shit apart from splashing out $650 I don't have on an Apexi S-AFC... Cheers :) Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ (html version)

Re: Solutions for richness   2004-05-06 07:52:00 <Dave Thom> Youu wouldn't be referring to me would you Cully? To try and straighten things out... All the below mentioned occurs in my 1989 GZ20 Soarer with Gen 3 1G-GTE, 3" exhaust, no filter, automatic, no other modifications. 1) Once car is warmed up, if i boot it (ie. to pass someone) and pass over cats eyes the car "cuts" (rather similar to the boost cut I felt in the old MA70 7M-GTE where you're acelerating hard and then you get thrown forward because the car looses all power) and when this happens the check engine light flashes on for an instant then goes off and the car pulls again... if I run over a successsion of cats eyes it does this repeatedly... come to think of it it is almost exactly like the boost cut in the 7M-GTE (Can't say for 100% as I only hit boost cut once then wound the boost back down in that car) 2) When I floor it (WITHOUT hitting cats eyes) buckets of black smoke disappaer out the back of the car, ie. visible cloud of smoke in daylight, and the back of the car gets gradually blacker day by day... So please, any suggestions over and above the steps I'm going to take which are... 1) Replace knock sensor cable 2) Replace knock sensor 3) Check oxy sensor output 4) Check VF output from ECU And check after each of these steps if the problem is fixed.... Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:19 PM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness That's pretty much why I didn't point to your knock sensor solution - the fact that Dave's got a 7M which doesn't seem to suffer the same knock sensor problems, and that it's explicitly producing codes while driving seemed to rule it out as an obvious answer. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dobson Technical [mailto:dobsontech@xtra.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 12:58 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness To be perfectly honest I never looked for a fault code at the time, but I must also say that I replaced the knock sensor cable on another 1G GA-70 last weekend and it has cured his car also, I dont have any facts or figures to quote you on this I can only speak from personal experience and say including my car this is the third 1G exibiting the rich problem that I have replaced the cable in and it has fixed the problem. On my car I replaced the cable and knock sensor I only mean to say that it seems to be a common fault on 1G's and I now think that maybe due to the angle of the cable or slight twisting of the engine it must fracture the cable over time and this show the common characteristics of loss of power and piles of black smoke. Cheers Lee MKII 1G-GTE (missing one turbo) ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 12:50 PM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Just to clarify Lee, does this fault produce a check engine light when you're driving, or does it only show up when you jumper the diags, or no fault code at all? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Dobson Technical [mailto:dobsontech@xtra.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 12:38 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Although this is probably the 5th or 6th time I have said this. Here goes again In my 1G an Commonly in others when either your knock sensor or cabling to the knock sensor is faulty it creates a fault where the car not only feels flat ie loos of power but also has the unmistakable characteristic of piling lots of black smoke out your exhaust and running very rich. If you have not replaced either the knock sensor cable or the knock sensor or preferably both then you can play with whatever you like and still have the same fault. If you wish I can send the e-mall again and explain the full process I went through, but I can tell you now that it is a common fault amongst 1G's Cheers Lee MKII 1G-GTE (missing one turbo) ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:42 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Unlikely to be knock issue. Knock will just retard the timing - I'm 99% sure it has no effect on fueling (not awake enough yet to say 100%). The rest of the diagnosis is honestly quite easy. Go read up on the characteristics of O2 sensors and what it means (basically they put out 0-1volts which indicates whether the mixture is rich or lean - can't get much simpler). Then read up on VF - that's a stepped voltage output from the ECU which tells you whether the ECU is deliberately richening or leaning the mixture. Now if you can't manage to swap an AFM out then I give up :) -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:38 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Would it likely be in any way related to my oversensitive knock sensor triggering whenever I accelerate over cats eyes? *sigh* Most of that diagnosis is a little beyond me... Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:33 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Yes, you probably do have most of it. O2 sensor and ECU correction simply require a multimeter. Fuel rail pressure requires a pressure gauge and suitable fitting to mate it to the fuel rail. AFM tends to be a little more difficult, but is easiest to test by swapping in a known good one and driving it for a few days. ---------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:29 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness And of course I have all the equipment to check those...? Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness How about instead of adding a nasty hack like this to the car, that you trace the reason that it's overfueling? A correctly set up car will run rich, but not enough to leave soot behind. You need to check that: - Fuel fail pressure is behaving correctly (should vary between about 37 and 52psi depending on how much manifold vacuum you've got) - Your O2 sensor is delivering believable readings. - Your ECU isn't overcorrecting the mixture for no good reason (check VF voltages) - Your AFM is in good order. Cully ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:17 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: [sconz] Solutions for richness Hey all, I was reading one of my old Zoom magazines the other day, and came across a nifty little piece from RSM in australia (from memory) that was basically a mechanical tap for the fuel pressure regulator where you set the point it starts bleeding and also how much it bleeds, to prevent the way most turbo cars run rich with a little boost stuck into them... My question is, does anyone know if theres a local alternative for this? Or anything else I can do to stop the back of my car being covered in black shit apart from splashing out $650 I don't have on an Apexi S-AFC... Cheers :) Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ (html version)

Re: Solutions for richness   2004-05-06 07:58:00 <Dave Thom> Alrighty, I just jumpered them and the check engine and overdrive lights flash continuously, which from vaguely non-knowledge indicates no codes to display? PS. I haven't actually checked a list of error codes yet, just remembering the vague principal from my testing with the old laurel... Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cully Paterson" <Cully@supras.org.nz> To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 12:16 PM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness I'm pretty sure that a faulty/disconnected knock sensor will not produce a check engine/error code unless you jumper the diags box. I'd suggest you jumper TE1 and E1 and read off the fault code before you assume the worst... > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] > Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 12:10 p.m. > To: SCONZ.list Forward > Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness > > Alrighty, cheers guys, I'll have to get into it when I get a > chance... the issue with my knock sensor is that when > accelerating and I hit a cats eye the car seems to die > completely and the check engine light comes on, I'm aware of > how to fix this as it was posted previously, I jsut have to > get around to it... I'll probably do that first and then look > at the richness problem if its still there... > > Regards > > Dave Thom > IT Engineer > 021 140 4657 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stuart" <stuartw@kcbbs.gen.nz> > To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz> > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:48 AM > Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness > > > > On Wed, 05 May 2004 11:42, Cully Paterson wrote: > > > Unlikely to be knock issue. Knock will just retard the > timing - I'm 99% > > > sure it has no effect on fueling (not awake enough yet to > say 100%). > > > > Well, yes and no ;) > > If the knock sensor is over-reading a LOT then it is > possible for it to > retard > > very much and therefore you end up with a poor burn, which > can also be > > sooty.. > > > > > The rest of the diagnosis is honestly quite easy. Go > read up on the > > > characteristics of O2 sensors and what it means > (basically they put out > > > 0-1volts which indicates whether the mixture is rich or > lean - can't get > > > much simpler). Then read up on VF - that's a stepped > voltage output > > > from the ECU which tells you whether the ECU is > deliberately richening > > > or leaning the mixture. > > > > Oxy sensor and Vf checks are, are Cully says, very easy > with a little > reading. > > > > Regards, > > Stuart. > > > > --- > > Supra Club of New Zealand > > http://www.supras.org.nz/ > > > > > > --- > Supra Club of New Zealand > http://www.supras.org.nz/ > --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/

Re: Solutions for richness   2004-05-06 09:03:00 <Cully Paterson> ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Thom Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness >Also note there were engine pics included in all those so you should have picked it as a 1g :P >I'll get onto all the problems with the Supra once the Soarer is sorted out :) Heh, I didn't get that far - I suffer from dial up, and the pics took too long to arrive ;)

Re: Solutions for richness   2004-05-06 09:17:00 <Dave Thom> Patience boy, I had to upload them on dialup :P Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cully Paterson" <cully@supras.org.nz> To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 9:04 AM Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dave Thom > Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness > > > >Also note there were engine pics included in all those so you should have > picked it as a 1g :P > > >I'll get onto all the problems with the Supra once the Soarer is sorted out > :) > > > Heh, I didn't get that far - I suffer from dial up, and the pics took too > long to arrive ;) > > > > --- > Supra Club of New Zealand > http://www.supras.org.nz/ >

Re: Solutions for richness   2004-05-09 19:51:00 <Grant Brunton> With my faulty knock sensors I never had a check engine warning appear to start with, but it does now. It appears about 30 seconds after you start the car and drive off, and when it happens its kind of wierd because the light will show up and all power will die until you take your foot off the accelerator and back down again. Anyway, yes the light does come on while driving but only at an advanced stage of deterioration i think. ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 12:50 PM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Just to clarify Lee, does this fault produce a check engine light when you're driving, or does it only show up when you jumper the diags, or no fault code at all? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dobson Technical [mailto:dobsontech@xtra.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 12:38 p.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Although this is probably the 5th or 6th time I have said this. Here goes again In my 1G an Commonly in others when either your knock sensor or cabling to the knock sensor is faulty it creates a fault where the car not only feels flat ie loos of power but also has the unmistakable characteristic of piling lots of black smoke out your exhaust and running very rich. If you have not replaced either the knock sensor cable or the knock sensor or preferably both then you can play with whatever you like and still have the same fault. If you wish I can send the e-mall again and explain the full process I went through, but I can tell you now that it is a common fault amongst 1G's Cheers Lee MKII 1G-GTE (missing one turbo) ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:42 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Unlikely to be knock issue. Knock will just retard the timing - I'm 99% sure it has no effect on fueling (not awake enough yet to say 100%). The rest of the diagnosis is honestly quite easy. Go read up on the characteristics of O2 sensors and what it means (basically they put out 0-1volts which indicates whether the mixture is rich or lean - can't get much simpler). Then read up on VF - that's a stepped voltage output from the ECU which tells you whether the ECU is deliberately richening or leaning the mixture. Now if you can't manage to swap an AFM out then I give up :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:38 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness Would it likely be in any way related to my oversensitive knock sensor triggering whenever I accelerate over cats eyes? *sigh* Most of that diagnosis is a little beyond me... Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:33 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness Yes, you probably do have most of it. O2 sensor and ECU correction simply require a multimeter. Fuel rail pressure requires a pressure gauge and suitable fitting to mate it to the fuel rail. AFM tends to be a little more difficult, but is easiest to test by swapping in a known good one and driving it for a few days. -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:29 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: Re: [sconz] Solutions for richness And of course I have all the equipment to check those...? Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Cully Paterson To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: RE: [sconz] Solutions for richness How about instead of adding a nasty hack like this to the car, that you trace the reason that it's overfueling? A correctly set up car will run rich, but not enough to leave soot behind. You need to check that: - Fuel fail pressure is behaving correctly (should vary between about 37 and 52psi depending on how much manifold vacuum you've got) - Your O2 sensor is delivering believable readings. - Your ECU isn't overcorrecting the mixture for no good reason (check VF voltages) - Your AFM is in good order. Cully ---------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Thom [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 5 May 2004 11:17 a.m. To: SCONZ.list Forward Subject: [sconz] Solutions for richness Hey all, I was reading one of my old Zoom magazines the other day, and came across a nifty little piece from RSM in australia (from memory) that was basically a mechanical tap for the fuel pressure regulator where you set the point it starts bleeding and also how much it bleeds, to prevent the way most turbo cars run rich with a little boost stuck into them... My question is, does anyone know if theres a local alternative for this? Or anything else I can do to stop the back of my car being covered in black shit apart from splashing out $650 I don't have on an Apexi S-AFC... Cheers :) Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/ (html version)

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