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1JZ Hybrids   2004-05-28 12:26:00 <Marc Archbold>


Hi all,
Thought I'd share my experience of modifying my Auto JZA70 2.5TT and having
dynoed with a (wait for it) Fuel cut defender.

Current modifications include: Walbro 255lPH GSS342 HP fuel pump (stock
wiring/resistor) Hybrid CT12a turbos with steel turbines & larger compressors,
Greddy Profec B-II boost controller, custom plate & Bar intercooler.

The FCD was built from a schematic of a reverse engineered Greddy FCD from
MKIV.COM. Parts cost $9 including the LM324 Opamp.

Temp was 16DegC, 55% Humidity. Factory Fuel (w/o FCD) cut @ ~14.5Psi.
Idle AFR 14.4.


A baseline was established with the boost controller off, effectively stock
boost, and the FCD set very close to Fuel cut.
Result was 225.6 RWHP and an extreme AFR of around 10 - off the scale.

From that point the boost was raised. HP increased only very slighly and at
16PSI detonation was heard due to the extreme Rich AFR, again, off the scale
~10.

Ok, from the dirty hacks ideas bag - to increase the AFR at 15PSI/full load,
FCD cut off point was decreased to 9PSI. AFR increased to 11.8 and 247RWHP.
No detonation was heard, even at 16PSI. With this 3.89V FCD setting at 16PSI
AFR was 12.4, no detonation.


I can only conclude that in the case of my setup that unless there is an issue
with fuel pressure regulation the use of an FCD is acceptable given the extreme
AFR's at full load. It is not perfect, but the fuel system is quite capable.

Im planning on going with either an SAFC-II, E-Manage, or (price) the soon to
be released Autospeed/Silicon chip Magazine Digital Fuel adjuster for precise
control with another pending dyno tune session.

Any comments would be greatfully accepted. I'd especially like to hear from
John Shannon - did you experience these issues and how did you overcome them?

Cheers,
Marc


Reply

Re: 1JZ Hybrids   2004-05-28 12:42:00 <Stuart>
> >From that point the boost was raised. HP increased only very slighly and
> > at
> 16PSI detonation was heard due to the extreme Rich AFR, again, off the
> scale ~10.

Um, a rich mixture does not produce detonation, ever, there is no way being
too rich can cause detonation (it can cause lower HP, and high temps in
exhaust system due to late burning..)

Regards,
Stuart W.
Reply

Re: 1JZ Hybrids   2004-05-28 12:44:00 <John Rosser>
hey marc, congrats on getting it on the dyno!! sounds like things are going
really well for it. did you dyno the car before you started doing the mods
to it? are the turbo's similar in build to john shannons ones?

john

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc Archbold" <marc.a@paradise.net.nz>
To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 12:25 PM
Subject: [sconz] 1JZ Hybrids


>
>
> Hi all,
> Thought I'd share my experience of modifying my Auto JZA70 2.5TT and
having
> dynoed with a (wait for it) Fuel cut defender.
>
> Current modifications include: Walbro 255lPH GSS342 HP fuel pump (stock
> wiring/resistor) Hybrid CT12a turbos with steel turbines & larger
compressors,
> Greddy Profec B-II boost controller, custom plate & Bar intercooler.
>
> The FCD was built from a schematic of a reverse engineered Greddy FCD from
> MKIV.COM. Parts cost $9 including the LM324 Opamp.
>
> Temp was 16DegC, 55% Humidity. Factory Fuel (w/o FCD) cut @ ~14.5Psi.
> Idle AFR 14.4.
>
>
> A baseline was established with the boost controller off, effectively
stock
> boost, and the FCD set very close to Fuel cut.
> Result was 225.6 RWHP and an extreme AFR of around 10 - off the scale.
>
> From that point the boost was raised. HP increased only very slighly and
at
> 16PSI detonation was heard due to the extreme Rich AFR, again, off the
scale
> ~10.
>
> Ok, from the dirty hacks ideas bag - to increase the AFR at 15PSI/full
load,
> FCD cut off point was decreased to 9PSI. AFR increased to 11.8 and
247RWHP.
> No detonation was heard, even at 16PSI. With this 3.89V FCD setting at
16PSI
> AFR was 12.4, no detonation.
>
>
> I can only conclude that in the case of my setup that unless there is an
issue
> with fuel pressure regulation the use of an FCD is acceptable given the
extreme
> AFR's at full load. It is not perfect, but the fuel system is quite
capable.
>
> Im planning on going with either an SAFC-II, E-Manage, or (price) the soon
to
> be released Autospeed/Silicon chip Magazine Digital Fuel adjuster for
precise
> control with another pending dyno tune session.
>
> Any comments would be greatfully accepted. I'd especially like to hear
from
> John Shannon - did you experience these issues and how did you overcome
them?
>
> Cheers,
> Marc
>
>
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand
> http://www.supras.org.nz/

Reply

Re: 1JZ Hybrids   2004-05-28 12:51:00 <Marc Archbold>


Thanks Stuart. I have written what we found on the dyno, and increasing AFR
appreared to stop detonation, and as you have suggested is probably not the
cause.

Do you have any suggestions for fuel trim?

Regards,
Marc


> > >From that point the boost was raised. HP increased only very slighly
> and
> > > at
> > 16PSI detonation was heard due to the extreme Rich AFR, again, off
> the
> > scale ~10.
>
> Um, a rich mixture does not produce detonation, ever, there is no way
> being
> too rich can cause detonation (it can cause lower HP, and high temps in
>
> exhaust system due to late burning..)
>
> Regards,
> Stuart W.
>
Reply

Re: 1JZ Hybrids   2004-05-28 13:01:00 <Marc Archbold>


Thanks John.

I really should have dynoed it locally before fitting the hybrids and
intercooler.

Its probable that the Intercooler would have little/no additional gain at stock
boost levels so in comparison to the Dyno results from Supra Fest 2003, there
appears to be a gain of 4.6HP at stock from the new turbos. (Stock 221HP from
Suprafest 2003 vs. 226.2RWHP yesterday) but this figure could have resulted
from any number of possibilities.

Have not heard anything about John's Turbos - he tends to keep these details
close to home ;-) Do tell :)

Cheers,
Marc



> hey marc, congrats on getting it on the dyno!! sounds like things are
> going
> really well for it. did you dyno the car before you started doing the
> mods
> to it? are the turbo's similar in build to john shannons ones?
>
> john
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marc Archbold" <marc.a@paradise.net.nz>
> To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 12:25 PM
> Subject: [sconz] 1JZ Hybrids
>
>
> >
> >
> > Hi all,
> > Thought I'd share my experience of modifying my Auto JZA70 2.5TT and
> having
> > dynoed with a (wait for it) Fuel cut defender.
> >
> > Current modifications include: Walbro 255lPH GSS342 HP fuel pump
> (stock
> > wiring/resistor) Hybrid CT12a turbos with steel turbines & larger
> compressors,
> > Greddy Profec B-II boost controller, custom plate & Bar intercooler.
> >
> > The FCD was built from a schematic of a reverse engineered Greddy FCD
> from
> > MKIV.COM. Parts cost $9 including the LM324 Opamp.
> >
> > Temp was 16DegC, 55% Humidity. Factory Fuel (w/o FCD) cut @ ~14.5Psi.
> > Idle AFR 14.4.
> >
> >
> > A baseline was established with the boost controller off, effectively
> stock
> > boost, and the FCD set very close to Fuel cut.
> > Result was 225.6 RWHP and an extreme AFR of around 10 - off the
> scale.
> >
> > From that point the boost was raised. HP increased only very slighly
> and
> at
> > 16PSI detonation was heard due to the extreme Rich AFR, again, off
> the
> scale
> > ~10.
> >
> > Ok, from the dirty hacks ideas bag - to increase the AFR at
> 15PSI/full
> load,
> > FCD cut off point was decreased to 9PSI. AFR increased to 11.8 and
> 247RWHP.
> > No detonation was heard, even at 16PSI. With this 3.89V FCD setting
> at
> 16PSI
> > AFR was 12.4, no detonation.
> >
> >
> > I can only conclude that in the case of my setup that unless there is
> an
> issue
> > with fuel pressure regulation the use of an FCD is acceptable given
> the
> extreme
> > AFR's at full load. It is not perfect, but the fuel system is quite
> capable.
> >
> > Im planning on going with either an SAFC-II, E-Manage, or (price) the
> soon
> to
> > be released Autospeed/Silicon chip Magazine Digital Fuel adjuster for
> precise
> > control with another pending dyno tune session.
> >
> > Any comments would be greatfully accepted. I'd especially like to
> hear
> from
> > John Shannon - did you experience these issues and how did you
> overcome
> them?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Marc
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Supra Club of New Zealand
> > http://www.supras.org.nz/
>
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand
> http://www.supras.org.nz/
>

Reply

Re: 1JZ Hybrids   2004-05-28 13:06:00 <Stuart>
On Fri, 28 May 2004 12:51, Marc Archbold wrote:
> Thanks Stuart. I have written what we found on the dyno, and increasing
> AFR appreared to stop detonation, and as you have suggested is probably not
> the cause.
Yep, I would agree exactly with what you was, just doubt the reasoning.
I'm also concerned that you were hearing detonation - that should only even
happen AFTER you have run out of the ECU's ability to control it through the
knock sensors and retard, which means MASSIVE detonation, not start of
detonation.

> Do you have any suggestions for fuel trim?

Not really from the top of my head, although trimming a MAP car should not be
too hard, an adjustable gain opamp is not the worse start.. especially a
setup where you can place a 'knee' point where it changes from 1:1, if you
follow.

I'm wondering how linear the FPR's are..
I wonder if they bump the fuel pressure up a lot at a certain boost level, as
a 'protection' measure. Either that of the ECU is detecting detonation and
retarding significantly, which can also cause an apparently rich ratio.

What method of AFR measurement were they using? the next to useless
oxy-sensor-up-the-tailpipe, or a gas analyzer?

Regards,
Stuart.
Reply

RE: 1JZ Hybrids   2004-05-28 17:04:00 <john shannon>

Hi Marc you have got to get rid of your injectors and all you need is 440cc out of a mk4 supra and a fuel pressure regulator rising rate but i got a bosh o44 fuel pump that is good for 750hp and now i run at 17.5 psi boot all day every day and with a good auto on a dyno i should be clous to 300kw well eny were between 260kw and 300kw but a lot more soon thats a thought my 440cc injectors will be up for sale soon.

>From: Marc Archbold <marc.a@paradise.net.nz>
>Reply-To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
>To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
>Subject: [sconz] 1JZ Hybrids
>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 12:25:53 +1200 (NZST)
>
>
>
>Hi all,
>Thought I'd share my experience of modifying my Auto JZA70 2.5TT and having
>dynoed with a (wait for it) Fuel cut defender.
>
>Current modifications include: Walbro 255lPH GSS342 HP fuel pump (stock
>wiring/resistor) Hybrid CT12a turbos with steel turbines & larger compressors,
>Greddy Profec B-II boost controller, custom plate & Bar intercooler.
>
>The FCD was built from a schematic of a reverse engineered Greddy FCD from
>MKIV.COM.  Parts cost $9 including the LM324 Opamp.
>
>Temp was 16DegC, 55% Humidity.  Factory Fuel (w/o FCD) cut @ ~14.5Psi.
>Idle AFR 14.4.
>
>
>A baseline was established with the boost controller off, effectively stock
>boost, and the FCD set very close to Fuel cut.
>Result was 225.6 RWHP and an extreme AFR of around 10 - off the scale.
>
>From that point the boost was raised.  HP increased only very slighly and at
>16PSI detonation was heard due to the extreme Rich AFR, again, off the scale
>~10.
>
>Ok, from the dirty hacks ideas bag - to increase the AFR at 15PSI/full load,
>FCD cut off point was decreased to 9PSI.  AFR increased to 11.8 and 247RWHP.
>No detonation was heard, even at 16PSI.  With this 3.89V FCD setting at 16PSI
>AFR was 12.4, no detonation.
>
>
>I can only conclude that in the case of my setup that unless there is an issue
>with fuel pressure regulation the use of an FCD is acceptable given the extreme
>AFR's at full load.  It is not perfect, but the fuel system is quite capable.
>
>Im planning on going with either an SAFC-II, E-Manage, or (price) the soon to
>be released Autospeed/Silicon chip Magazine Digital Fuel adjuster for precise
>control with another pending dyno tune session.
>
>Any comments would be greatfully accepted.  I'd especially like to hear from
>John Shannon - did you experience these issues and how did you overcome them?
>
>Cheers,
>Marc
>
>
>
>---
>Supra Club of New Zealand
>http://www.supras.org.nz/


There’s never been a better time to get Xtra JetStream!
Reply

Re: 1JZ Hybrids   2004-05-28 17:42:00 <Stuart>
On Fri, 28 May 2004 17:03, john shannon wrote:
> Hi Marc you have got to get rid of your injectors and all you need is 440cc
> out of a mk4 supra and a fuel pressure regulator rising rate but i got a
> bosh o44 fuel pump that is good for 750hp and now i run at 17.5 psi boot
> all day every day and with a good auto on a dyno i should be clous to 300kw
> well eny were between 260kw and 300kw but a lot more soon thats a thought
> my 440cc injectors will be up for sale soon.

So how do you compensate your normal mixture back down?

Regards,
Stuart W.
Reply

Re: 1JZ Hybrids   2004-05-28 17:48:00 <john shannon>

On the fuel pressure reg there is a adjustment but you can only adjust it on a dyno i have got mine set for 17.5 psi boost and i keep it on that and it runs sweet better than its ever ran.

>From: Stuart <stuartw@kcbbs.gen.nz>
>Reply-To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
>To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
>Subject: Re: [sconz] 1JZ Hybrids
>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 17:41:42 +1200
>
>On Fri, 28 May 2004 17:03, john shannon wrote:
> > Hi Marc you have got to get rid of your injectors and all you need is 440cc
> > out of a mk4 supra and a fuel pressure regulator rising rate but i got a
> > bosh o44 fuel pump that is good for 750hp and now i run at 17.5 psi boot
> > all day every day and with a good auto on a dyno i should be clous to 300kw
> > well eny were between 260kw and 300kw but a lot more soon thats a thought
> > my 440cc injectors will be up for sale soon.
>
>So how do you compensate your normal mixture back down?
>
>Regards,
>Stuart W.
>
>---
>Supra Club of New Zealand
>http://www.supras.org.nz/


There’s never been a better time to get Xtra JetStream!
Reply

RE: 1JZ Hybrids   2004-05-29 12:31:00 <Marc Archbold>

John thanks for the reply.
How does your AFR look at throttle settings/load other than WOT and full
load?

The problem I am trying to overcome is excessively rich fuel but it
appears you found that 440cc injectors were needed for your 1JZ to
increase fuelling. How did you determine that? Perhaps there is an
issue with my Fuel pressure regulator at positive pressure references as
I cant see how 440cc injectors could help my 1JZ at this point.

What other mods have you done John?

Cheers,
Marc


-----Original Message-----
From: bounce-33929-25@list.supras.org.nz
[mailto:bounce-33929-25@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of john shannon
Sent: Friday, 28 May 2004 5:48 p.m.
To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
Subject: Re: [sconz] 1JZ Hybrids


On the fuel pressure reg there is a adjustment but you can only adjust
it on a dyno i have got mine set for 17.5 psi boost and i keep it on
that and it runs sweet better than its ever ran.


>From: Stuart <stuartw@kcbbs.gen.nz>
>Reply-To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
>To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
>Subject: Re: [sconz] 1JZ Hybrids
>Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 17:41:42 +1200
>
>On Fri, 28 May 2004 17:03, john shannon wrote:
> > Hi Marc you have got to get rid of your injectors and all you need
is 440cc
> > out of a mk4 supra and a fuel pressure regulator rising rate but i
got a
> > bosh o44 fuel pump that is good for 750hp and now i run at 17.5 psi
boot
> > all day every day and with a good auto on a dyno i should be clous
to 300kw
> > well eny were between 260kw and 300kw but a lot more soon thats a
thought
> > my 440cc injectors will be up for sale soon.
>
>So how do you compensate your normal mixture back down?
>
>Regards,
>Stuart W.
>
>---
>Supra Club of New Zealand
>http://www.supras.org.nz/



There's never been a better time to get Xtra JetStream! ---
Supra Club of New Zealand
http://www.supras.org.nz/

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