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Car Update   2004-06-13 03:38:00 <Hunt M> Hey all, For those of your interested (if any - if not TOUGH!! hehe :) ) here's an update on my car as of Sunday night - 4 Bilstein shocks put in on my original lowered springs - should make for a rather firm ride - new 2,200lbs pressure plate with organic full face clutch plate - cam seals replaced due to leaking (1-2 liters a week) - front disks replaced (old ones had a HUGE HUGE lip around outside and were warped causing a VERY bad vibration once heated up) - replacement diff almost in (4.1:1 open *pout* ) if anyone has an LSD or Torsen they are willing to sell let me know please! Cheers all Hunt (html version)

re: Car Update   2004-06-13 20:18:00 <Brett> re: Car Update Hey hunt, did u need to shorten the bilsteins? i should get around to replacing my shocks at some time. does anybody know how short the koni adjutable shocks are?? if they are not short enough, can u shorten them?? do they work like tems with the adjustment going through the shaft of the shock or are the adjustments made at the bottom of the shock?? any people know of cheap places to get shocks?? it seems like all the places i visit charge an arm and a leg for even the very basic ones. Cheers

RE: Car Update   2004-06-13 20:21:00 <Hunt M> Hey, No I didn't need to shorten them as my springs are not cut spring but are proper lowering once that are captive when suspension is fully extended. Cheers Hunt -----Original Message----- From: bounce-34222-72@list.supras.org.nz [mailto:bounce-34222-72@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Brett Sent: Sunday, 13 June 2004 8:06 p.m. To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Subject: re:[sconz] Car Update re: Car Update Hey hunt, did u need to shorten the bilsteins? i should get around to replacing my shocks at some time. does anybody know how short the koni adjutable shocks are?? if they are not short enough, can u shorten them?? do they work like tems with the adjustment going through the shaft of the shock or are the adjustments made at the bottom of the shock?? any people know of cheap places to get shocks?? it seems like all the places i visit charge an arm and a leg for even the very basic ones. Cheers --- Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz

Re: Car Update   2004-06-13 21:03:00 <Stuart> > does anybody know how short the koni adjutable shocks are?? if they are not > short enough, can u shorten them?? do they work like tems with the > adjustment going through the shaft of the shock or are the adjustments made > at the bottom of the shock?? Koni adjustables need to be removed from the car to adjust them (well, the ones I've seen anyway), and certainly are nothing like TEMS shocks. > any people know of cheap places to get shocks?? it seems like all the > places i visit charge an arm and a leg for even the very basic ones. Good shocks aint cheap - especially rebuildable and/or adjustable ones. Pity really. Regards, Stuart W.

RE: Car Update   2004-06-13 21:10:00 <Hunt M> I paid $220 for two front shocks - new - in December 2002 - they are totally stuffed now - get what you pay for!! Hunt -----Original Message----- From: bounce-34224-72@list.supras.org.nz [mailto:bounce-34224-72@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Stuart Sent: Sunday, 13 June 2004 8:59 p.m. To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Subject: Re: [sconz] Car Update > does anybody know how short the koni adjutable shocks are?? if they are not > short enough, can u shorten them?? do they work like tems with the > adjustment going through the shaft of the shock or are the adjustments made > at the bottom of the shock?? Koni adjustables need to be removed from the car to adjust them (well, the ones I've seen anyway), and certainly are nothing like TEMS shocks. > any people know of cheap places to get shocks?? it seems like all the > places i visit charge an arm and a leg for even the very basic ones. Good shocks aint cheap - especially rebuildable and/or adjustable ones. Pity really. Regards, Stuart W. --- Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz

Re: Car Update   2004-06-13 21:19:00 <Stuart> On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 20:21, Hunt M wrote: > Hey, > No I didn't need to shorten them as my springs are not cut spring but are > proper lowering once that are captive when suspension is fully extended. The main reason to shorten shocks is not to keep springs bound (keeper springs do that nicely) but to make sure the shock travel is still enough in both directions - although your reason above is also sensible.. Heavily lowered cars can have serious problem with shocvks 'bottoming out' unless they are modified - and that is TRES messy! Regards, Stuart W.

RE: Car Update   2004-06-13 21:27:00 <Hunt M> When you say bottoming out - you mean the car goes down and the shock actually stops the car from going down further - not the bump stop? I also noticed that the picture of that supra Cully posted up the car is off the ground so one would assume the shocks at full stretch - doesn't look like they're extended all that much tho - is there any advantage of shortening the shocks other than the bottoming out one? Hunt -----Original Message----- From: bounce-34230-72@list.supras.org.nz [mailto:bounce-34230-72@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Stuart Sent: Sunday, 13 June 2004 8:58 p.m. To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Subject: Re: [sconz] Car Update On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 20:21, Hunt M wrote: > Hey, > No I didn't need to shorten them as my springs are not cut spring but are > proper lowering once that are captive when suspension is fully extended. The main reason to shorten shocks is not to keep springs bound (keeper springs do that nicely) but to make sure the shock travel is still enough in both directions - although your reason above is also sensible.. Heavily lowered cars can have serious problem with shocvks 'bottoming out' unless they are modified - and that is TRES messy! Regards, Stuart W. --- Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz

Re: Car Update   2004-06-13 21:37:00 <Stuart> On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 21:26, Hunt M wrote: > When you say bottoming out - you mean the car goes down and the shock > actually stops the car from going down further - not the bump stop? Usually not - otherwise the shock would fail VERY badly - they often however change their response rate poorly at either end of their travel (bottoming out was perhaps a bad choice of words). Gas shocks are really designed to work the best around the center of their travel, and some get VERY non-linear towards the ends. the ultimate example of this is monroe 'sensatrac' (sp?) shocks, which MUST operate over a very specific range of movement, and changing your springs (or even the weight in your car) makes them perform badly. > I also noticed that the picture of that supra Cully posted up the car is > off the ground so one would assume the shocks at full stretch - doesn't > look like they're extended all that much tho - is there any advantage of > shortening the shocks other than the bottoming out one? Shocks have rates in both directions ;) and I doubt it has been in the air very long.. the wheels will be slowly dropping. The shock/spring setup on my bikes for example have separately adjustable compression damping, rebound damping, spring preload and 'height' - some very high end road shocks have seperately adjustable compression and rebound damping, some adjustables adjust only compression damning. Many 'standard' shocks have very little rebound damping, which makes them next to useless for racing purposes. Regards, Stuart W.

RE: Car Update   2004-06-13 21:43:00 <Hunt M> Thank you for all of that. Now question time! :) I a lot of people on here hate the fact that I (as have many others) lowered our cars - but I like it lowered - now what I'm after is information on the following - because my car is lowered the shocks are working at a lower part of the shock than what they used to - would I be best to get the springs shortened so that the shocks are working around the same part (middle or whatever) as they would with standard springs? Cheers Hunt p.s. please don't tell me to use standard springs -----Original Message----- From: bounce-34235-72@list.supras.org.nz [mailto:bounce-34235-72@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Stuart Sent: Sunday, 13 June 2004 9:37 p.m. To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Subject: Re: [sconz] Car Update On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 21:26, Hunt M wrote: > When you say bottoming out - you mean the car goes down and the shock > actually stops the car from going down further - not the bump stop? Usually not - otherwise the shock would fail VERY badly - they often however change their response rate poorly at either end of their travel (bottoming out was perhaps a bad choice of words). Gas shocks are really designed to work the best around the center of their travel, and some get VERY non-linear towards the ends. the ultimate example of this is monroe 'sensatrac' (sp?) shocks, which MUST operate over a very specific range of movement, and changing your springs (or even the weight in your car) makes them perform badly. > I also noticed that the picture of that supra Cully posted up the car is > off the ground so one would assume the shocks at full stretch - doesn't > look like they're extended all that much tho - is there any advantage of > shortening the shocks other than the bottoming out one? Shocks have rates in both directions ;) and I doubt it has been in the air very long.. the wheels will be slowly dropping. The shock/spring setup on my bikes for example have separately adjustable compression damping, rebound damping, spring preload and 'height' - some very high end road shocks have seperately adjustable compression and rebound damping, some adjustables adjust only compression damning. Many 'standard' shocks have very little rebound damping, which makes them next to useless for racing purposes. Regards, Stuart W. --- Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz

Re: Car Update   2004-06-13 22:06:00 <Stuart> On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 21:42, Hunt M wrote: > Thank you for all of that. Now question time! :) > I a lot of people on here hate the fact that I (as have many others) > lowered our cars - but I like it lowered - now what I'm after is > information on the following - because my car is lowered the shocks are > working at a lower part of the shock than what they used to - would I be > best to get the springs shortened so that the shocks are working around the > same part (middle or whatever) as they would with standard springs? I assume you mean the shocks shortened.. I believe, having had TEMS shocks appart, that they are reasonably linear - it all depends how close to one end you are getting - and for that you would need to measure your shocks up loaded on the car, and also measure the maximum-minimum travel on a shock out of the car. My old TEMS shocks are not here at present, otherwise I would measure them for you - sorry. In reality unless you are driving very very well, the difference is probably not large on this type of shock (hitting bump stops is probably more of a risk - and no shock will fix that handling problem), and by very well I mean competitive track-times kind of well, as opposed to drivin quick on the street kind of well. The above assumes you have TEMS shocks, but I have a feeling you don't, yes? if not then it depends a lot more of the design of whatever shocks you do have - they may not have been 'centered' on your supra anyway if they are a reasonably generic shock. Regards, Stuart W.

RE: Car Update   2004-06-13 22:09:00 <Hunt M> Hey. I don't have tems - I have JZA-70's bilsteins :) *grin* -----Original Message----- From: bounce-34237-72@list.supras.org.nz [mailto:bounce-34237-72@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Stuart Sent: Sunday, 13 June 2004 10:06 p.m. To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Subject: Re: [sconz] Car Update On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 21:42, Hunt M wrote: > Thank you for all of that. Now question time! :) > I a lot of people on here hate the fact that I (as have many others) > lowered our cars - but I like it lowered - now what I'm after is > information on the following - because my car is lowered the shocks are > working at a lower part of the shock than what they used to - would I be > best to get the springs shortened so that the shocks are working around the > same part (middle or whatever) as they would with standard springs? I assume you mean the shocks shortened.. I believe, having had TEMS shocks appart, that they are reasonably linear - it all depends how close to one end you are getting - and for that you would need to measure your shocks up loaded on the car, and also measure the maximum-minimum travel on a shock out of the car. My old TEMS shocks are not here at present, otherwise I would measure them for you - sorry. In reality unless you are driving very very well, the difference is probably not large on this type of shock (hitting bump stops is probably more of a risk - and no shock will fix that handling problem), and by very well I mean competitive track-times kind of well, as opposed to drivin quick on the street kind of well. The above assumes you have TEMS shocks, but I have a feeling you don't, yes? if not then it depends a lot more of the design of whatever shocks you do have - they may not have been 'centered' on your supra anyway if they are a reasonably generic shock. Regards, Stuart W. --- Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz

Re: Car Update   2004-06-14 09:20:00 <Dave Thom> When you say cam seals, which seals exactly and were you burning oil or just leaking it? Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Hunt M To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 3:37 AM Subject: [sconz] Car Update Hey all, For those of your interested (if any - if not TOUGH!! hehe :) ) here's an update on my car as of Sunday night - 4 Bilstein shocks put in on my original lowered springs - should make for a rather firm ride - new 2,200lbs pressure plate with organic full face clutch plate - cam seals replaced due to leaking (1-2 liters a week) - front disks replaced (old ones had a HUGE HUGE lip around outside and were warped causing a VERY bad vibration once heated up) - replacement diff almost in (4.1:1 open *pout* ) if anyone has an LSD or Torsen they are willing to sell let me know please! Cheers all Hunt --- Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz (html version)

RE: Car Update   2004-06-14 13:40:00 <Hunt M> Leaking it - the seals that go on the front of each cam shaft - rubber ones - they were very hard. $5 or so dollars each from Appco _____ From: bounce-34243-72@list.supras.org.nz [mailto:bounce-34243-72@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Dave Thom Sent: Monday, 14 June 2004 9:20 a.m. To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Subject: Re: [sconz] Car Update When you say cam seals, which seals exactly and were you burning oil or just leaking it? Regards Dave Thom IT Engineer 021 140 4657 ----- Original Message ----- From: Hunt M <mailto:5uprah@supras.co.nz> To: Supra <mailto:sconz@list.supras.org.nz> Club of NZ Mailing List Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 3:37 AM Subject: [sconz] Car Update Hey all, For those of your interested (if any - if not TOUGH!! hehe :) ) here's an update on my car as of Sunday night - 4 Bilstein shocks put in on my original lowered springs - should make for a rather firm ride - new 2,200lbs pressure plate with organic full face clutch plate - cam seals replaced due to leaking (1-2 liters a week) - front disks replaced (old ones had a HUGE HUGE lip around outside and were warped causing a VERY bad vibration once heated up) - replacement diff almost in (4.1:1 open *pout* ) if anyone has an LSD or Torsen they are willing to sell let me know please! Cheers all Hunt --- Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz --- Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz (html version)

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