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What's this car worth?

2004-06-16 14:27:00

Hi all

Mk3, 1990, black, targa, JZA70, was auto, now manual,
grey leather interior, 127K, front air dam cut up (to
let more air in?), missing some trim on exterior, 17"
aftermarket wheels (Advanti?)

Cheers
Andy S

=====
Visit my website http://andy.supras.org.nz

Home of the 5MGE-->7MGTE conversion!

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RE: What's this car worth?

2004-06-16 17:38:00

Hi Andy i paid over 10k for mine and i would of paid more so its how much do you want it.

>From: Andy S <spud3861@yahoo.com>

>Reply-To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>

>To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>

>Subject: [sconz] What's this car worth?

>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 19:27:25 -0700 (PDT)

>Mk3, 1990, black, targa, JZA70, was auto, now manual,

>grey leather interior, 127K, front air dam cut up (to

>let more air in?), missing some trim on exterior, 17"

>aftermarket wheels (Advanti?)

>Visit my website http://andy.supras.org.nz

>Home of the 5MGE-->7MGTE conversion!

>__________________________________

>Do you Yahoo!?

>New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!

>http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

>Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/

>Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz

Watch movie trailers and listen to music online with the Xtra Broadband Channel !

Re: What's this car worth?

2004-06-16 17:43:00

I would have to say in the region of 7-8ish, unless it is in real good
condition, which it does not sound like it is.

Regards,
Stuart.
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:37, john shannon wrote:
> Hi Andy i paid over 10k for mine and i would of paid more so its how much
> do you want it.
>
> >From: Andy S <spud3861@yahoo.com>
> >Reply-To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> >To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> >Subject: [sconz] What's this car worth?
> >Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 19:27:25 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Hi all
> >
> >Mk3, 1990, black, targa, JZA70, was auto, now manual,
> >grey leather interior, 127K, front air dam cut up (to
> >let more air in?), missing some trim on exterior, 17"
> >aftermarket wheels (Advanti?)
> >
> >Cheers
> >Andy S
> >
> >=====
> >Visit my website http://andy.supras.org.nz
> >
> >Home of the 5MGE-->7MGTE conversion!
> >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
> >http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> >
> >---
> >Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> >Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>
> Watch movie trailers and listen to music online with the Xtra Broadband
> Channel ! --- Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz

re: What's this car worth?

2004-06-16 20:44:00

Is this the one thats been in the CHCH Buy/sell for 4 weeks in a row now? He started at $9500 and soon dropped to $7000. I guess the fact it is not a factory manual has adversly affected its value - I would have thought it was worth about $6000, given that a black auto one with 145000 Ks on went for $4000 recently..... Cheers, Pat D

Re: What's this car worth?

2004-06-16 20:48:00

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 20:37, Pat Davison wrote:
> Is this the one thats been in the CHCH Buy/sell for 4 weeks in a row now?
> He started at $9500 and soon dropped to $7000. I guess the fact it is not a
> factory manual has adversly affected its value - I would have thought it
> was worth about $6000, given that a black auto one with 145000 Ks on went
> for $4000 recently..... Cheers,

Yes, depends a LOT on the mods.
If it's a W box, I personally wouldn't touch it, because the box/clutch are
not up to a 1jz... however just possibly it's an R154, which would be a lot
better and worth more..
Sounds like a hack job though.

Regards,
Stuart W.

Re: What's this car worth?

2004-06-16 20:54:00

Yes, I was going to have a look at it last weekend, but didnt make it. If it is in this weekend I will have a look at it . As you say if it has the R154 it may be worth a serious look. Cheers, Pat D

Re: What's this car worth?

2004-06-17 10:06:00

Hey,
In reply to your comment saying how a W box and clutch would
not be up to handle a 1JZ - sure they box wouldn't but why
not the clutch? Standard clutch perhaps not but you must be
able to get a fairly mean clutch to fit onto a W box set up?

Hunt

> On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 20:37, Pat Davison wrote:
> > Is this the one thats been in the CHCH Buy/sell for 4
> > weeks in a row now? He started at $9500 and soon
> > dropped to $7000. I guess the fact it is not a factory
> manual has adversly affected its value - I would have
> > thought it was worth about $6000, given that a black
> > auto one with 145000 Ks on went for $4000 recently.....
> Cheers,
>
> Yes, depends a LOT on the mods.
> If it's a W box, I personally wouldn't touch it, because
> the box/clutch are not up to a 1jz... however just
> possibly it's an R154, which would be a lot better and
> worth more.. Sounds like a hack job though.
>
> Regards,
> Stuart W.
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> http://www.turbo.co.nz
>

Re: What's this car worth?

2004-06-17 10:19:00

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:05, 5uprah@supras.co.nz wrote:
> Hey,
> In reply to your comment saying how a W box and clutch would
> not be up to handle a 1JZ - sure they box wouldn't but why
> not the clutch? Standard clutch perhaps not but you must be
> able to get a fairly mean clutch to fit onto a W box set up?

W clutches are quite small size, and for clutches, to a large extent, size
DOES matter - the gripping force goes up by around diameter^2.5
so a clutch 20% wider has 60% more gripping power.

Yes, I'm sure you could build a hell-clutch in W size that would quite easily
hold a 1jzgte in standard form, but it would not be fun to drive around.. And
once you modded the 1jz...

Regards,
Stuart W.

Re: What's this car worth?

2004-06-17 12:02:00

<Marc Archbold>

Stuart, isnt the material/friction surface the leading factor rather than the
total surface area?

> W clutches are quite small size, and for clutches, to a large extent,
> size
> DOES matter - the gripping force goes up by around diameter^2.5
> so a clutch 20% wider has 60% more gripping power.
>
> Yes, I'm sure you could build a hell-clutch in W size that would quite
> easily
> hold a 1jzgte in standard form, but it would not be fun to drive
> around.. And
> once you modded the 1jz...
>
> Regards,
> Stuart W.
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> http://www.turbo.co.nz
>

Re: What's this car worth?

2004-06-17 12:13:00

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 12:02, Marc Archbold wrote:
> Stuart, isnt the material/friction surface the leading factor rather than
> the total surface area?

Nope, in fact most 'high tech' friction materials work less well than standard
organic clutches (well, have less 'grab') - people use kevlar, ceramic, etc
because they can survive more heat abuse, not because they grab better.

Spot clutches help the whole thing, but they have their own downsides
(including heat problems and age problems).

Contact area, and also contact DIAMETER are critical measurements on any
clutch, then I would place contact pressure, then design, and lastly material
as factors to the holding strength.
Material and design are much more critical in the areas of abuse tolerance.

Regards,
Stuart W.

Re:What's this car worth?

2004-06-17 15:43:00

Hi Pat

Didn't know there was another member in Christchurch.
What kind of Supra do you have? Do you want to meet up
some time?

Cheers
Andy S

--- Pat Davison <torana_1978@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, I was going to have a look at it last weekend,
> but didnt make it. If it is in this weekend I will
> have a look at it . As you say if it has the R154 it
> may be worth a serious look.
> Cheers,
> Pat D
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand -
> http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> http://www.turbo.co.nz
>

=====
Visit my website http://andy.supras.org.nz

Home of the 5MGE-->7MGTE conversion!

__________________________________________________
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RE: What's this car worth?

2004-06-17 16:31:00

But surely a larger diameter clutch has a greater surface area and therefore
less pressure per square inch.....

-----Original Message-----
From: bounce-34370-72@list.supras.org.nz
[mailto:bounce-34370-72@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Stuart
Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 10:17 a.m.
To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
Subject: Re: [sconz] What's this car worth?

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:05, 5uprah@supras.co.nz wrote:
> Hey,
> In reply to your comment saying how a W box and clutch would
> not be up to handle a 1JZ - sure they box wouldn't but why
> not the clutch? Standard clutch perhaps not but you must be
> able to get a fairly mean clutch to fit onto a W box set up?

W clutches are quite small size, and for clutches, to a large extent, size
DOES matter - the gripping force goes up by around diameter^2.5
so a clutch 20% wider has 60% more gripping power.

Yes, I'm sure you could build a hell-clutch in W size that would quite
easily
hold a 1jzgte in standard form, but it would not be fun to drive around..
And
once you modded the 1jz...

Regards,
Stuart W.

---
Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz

RE: What's this car worth?

2004-06-17 16:41:00

<Peter Nield \(DSL AK\)>

Yes, less pounds per square inch with a greater clamped area. But the
same total clamping force...

If you keep the clamped area the same and increase the diameter, more
torque can be transferred for the same clamping force.

-----Original Message-----
From: bounce-34387-33@list.supras.org.nz
[mailto:bounce-34387-33@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Hunt M
Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 4:31 p.m.
To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
Subject: RE: [sconz] What's this car worth?

But surely a larger diameter clutch has a greater surface area and
therefore less pressure per square inch.....

-----Original Message-----
From: bounce-34370-72@list.supras.org.nz
[mailto:bounce-34370-72@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Stuart
Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 10:17 a.m.
To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
Subject: Re: [sconz] What's this car worth?

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:05, 5uprah@supras.co.nz wrote:
> Hey,
> In reply to your comment saying how a W box and clutch would not be up

> to handle a 1JZ - sure they box wouldn't but why not the clutch?
> Standard clutch perhaps not but you must be able to get a fairly mean
> clutch to fit onto a W box set up?

W clutches are quite small size, and for clutches, to a large extent,
size DOES matter - the gripping force goes up by around diameter^2.5 so
a clutch 20% wider has 60% more gripping power.

Yes, I'm sure you could build a hell-clutch in W size that would quite
easily hold a 1jzgte in standard form, but it would not be fun to drive
around..
And
once you modded the 1jz...

Regards,
Stuart W.

---
Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website sponsored
by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz

---
Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website sponsored
by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz

RE: What's this car worth?

2004-06-17 16:44:00

Ok so let me get this right - for examples sake if you had a 8inch diameter
clutch and a 9inch diameter clutch with a 2000lbs pressure plate - both full
face clutch plates - the 9inch would be able to handle and grip more than
the 8inch?

Cheers
Hunt

-----Original Message-----
From: bounce-34389-72@list.supras.org.nz
[mailto:bounce-34389-72@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Peter Nield (DSL
AK)
Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 4:40 p.m.
To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
Subject: RE: [sconz] What's this car worth?

Yes, less pounds per square inch with a greater clamped area. But the
same total clamping force...

If you keep the clamped area the same and increase the diameter, more
torque can be transferred for the same clamping force.

-----Original Message-----
From: bounce-34387-33@list.supras.org.nz
[mailto:bounce-34387-33@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Hunt M
Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 4:31 p.m.
To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
Subject: RE: [sconz] What's this car worth?

But surely a larger diameter clutch has a greater surface area and
therefore less pressure per square inch.....

-----Original Message-----
From: bounce-34370-72@list.supras.org.nz
[mailto:bounce-34370-72@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Stuart
Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 10:17 a.m.
To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
Subject: Re: [sconz] What's this car worth?

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:05, 5uprah@supras.co.nz wrote:
> Hey,
> In reply to your comment saying how a W box and clutch would not be up

> to handle a 1JZ - sure they box wouldn't but why not the clutch?
> Standard clutch perhaps not but you must be able to get a fairly mean
> clutch to fit onto a W box set up?

W clutches are quite small size, and for clutches, to a large extent,
size DOES matter - the gripping force goes up by around diameter^2.5 so
a clutch 20% wider has 60% more gripping power.

Yes, I'm sure you could build a hell-clutch in W size that would quite
easily hold a 1jzgte in standard form, but it would not be fun to drive
around..
And
once you modded the 1jz...

Regards,
Stuart W.

---
Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website sponsored
by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz

---
Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website sponsored
by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz

---
Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz

RE: What's this car worth?

2004-06-17 16:46:00

<Doig, Richard>

Torque = force x distance

> -----Original Message-----
> From: bounce-34390-27@list.supras.org.nz
> [mailto:bounce-34390-27@list.supras.org.nz]On Behalf Of Hunt M
> Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 16:44
> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [sconz] What's this car worth?
>
>
> Ok so let me get this right - for examples sake if you had a
> 8inch diameter
> clutch and a 9inch diameter clutch with a 2000lbs pressure
> plate - both full
> face clutch plates - the 9inch would be able to handle and
> grip more than
> the 8inch?
>
> Cheers
> Hunt
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bounce-34389-72@list.supras.org.nz
> [mailto:bounce-34389-72@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of
> Peter Nield (DSL
> AK)
> Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 4:40 p.m.
> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [sconz] What's this car worth?
>
> Yes, less pounds per square inch with a greater clamped area. But the
> same total clamping force...
>
> If you keep the clamped area the same and increase the diameter, more
> torque can be transferred for the same clamping force.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bounce-34387-33@list.supras.org.nz
> [mailto:bounce-34387-33@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Hunt M
> Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 4:31 p.m.
> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [sconz] What's this car worth?
>
> But surely a larger diameter clutch has a greater surface area and
> therefore less pressure per square inch.....
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bounce-34370-72@list.supras.org.nz
> [mailto:bounce-34370-72@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Stuart
> Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 10:17 a.m.
> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [sconz] What's this car worth?
>
> On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:05, 5uprah@supras.co.nz wrote:
> > Hey,
> > In reply to your comment saying how a W box and clutch
> would not be up
>
> > to handle a 1JZ - sure they box wouldn't but why not the clutch?
> > Standard clutch perhaps not but you must be able to get a
> fairly mean
> > clutch to fit onto a W box set up?
>
> W clutches are quite small size, and for clutches, to a large extent,
> size DOES matter - the gripping force goes up by around
> diameter^2.5 so
> a clutch 20% wider has 60% more gripping power.
>
> Yes, I'm sure you could build a hell-clutch in W size that would quite
> easily hold a 1jzgte in standard form, but it would not be
> fun to drive
> around..
> And
> once you modded the 1jz...
>
> Regards,
> Stuart W.
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> sponsored
> by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> sponsored
> by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
http://www.turbo.co.nz

---
Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz

____________________________________________________________________
CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential
information intended only for the use of the addressee named above.
If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby
notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction
of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in
error please notify Air New Zealand immediately. Any views expressed
in this message are those of the individual sender and may not
necessarily reflect the views of Air New Zealand.
_____________________________________________________________________
For more information on the Air New Zealand Group, visit us online
at http://www.airnewzealand.com
_____________________________________________________________________

RE: What's this car worth?

2004-06-17 17:01:00

Sweet - which means.....

-----Original Message-----
From: bounce-34392-72@list.supras.org.nz
[mailto:bounce-34392-72@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Doig, Richard
Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 4:46 p.m.
To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
Subject: RE: [sconz] What's this car worth?

Torque = force x distance

> -----Original Message-----
> From: bounce-34390-27@list.supras.org.nz
> [mailto:bounce-34390-27@list.supras.org.nz]On Behalf Of Hunt M
> Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 16:44
> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [sconz] What's this car worth?
>
>
> Ok so let me get this right - for examples sake if you had a
> 8inch diameter
> clutch and a 9inch diameter clutch with a 2000lbs pressure
> plate - both full
> face clutch plates - the 9inch would be able to handle and
> grip more than
> the 8inch?
>
> Cheers
> Hunt
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bounce-34389-72@list.supras.org.nz
> [mailto:bounce-34389-72@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of
> Peter Nield (DSL
> AK)
> Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 4:40 p.m.
> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [sconz] What's this car worth?
>
> Yes, less pounds per square inch with a greater clamped area. But the
> same total clamping force...
>
> If you keep the clamped area the same and increase the diameter, more
> torque can be transferred for the same clamping force.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bounce-34387-33@list.supras.org.nz
> [mailto:bounce-34387-33@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Hunt M
> Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 4:31 p.m.
> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [sconz] What's this car worth?
>
> But surely a larger diameter clutch has a greater surface area and
> therefore less pressure per square inch.....
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bounce-34370-72@list.supras.org.nz
> [mailto:bounce-34370-72@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Stuart
> Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 10:17 a.m.
> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [sconz] What's this car worth?
>
> On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:05, 5uprah@supras.co.nz wrote:
> > Hey,
> > In reply to your comment saying how a W box and clutch
> would not be up
>
> > to handle a 1JZ - sure they box wouldn't but why not the clutch?
> > Standard clutch perhaps not but you must be able to get a
> fairly mean
> > clutch to fit onto a W box set up?
>
> W clutches are quite small size, and for clutches, to a large extent,
> size DOES matter - the gripping force goes up by around
> diameter^2.5 so
> a clutch 20% wider has 60% more gripping power.
>
> Yes, I'm sure you could build a hell-clutch in W size that would quite
> easily hold a 1jzgte in standard form, but it would not be
> fun to drive
> around..
> And
> once you modded the 1jz...
>
> Regards,
> Stuart W.
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> sponsored
> by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> sponsored
> by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
http://www.turbo.co.nz

---
Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz

____________________________________________________________________
CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential
information intended only for the use of the addressee named above.
If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby
notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction
of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in
error please notify Air New Zealand immediately. Any views expressed
in this message are those of the individual sender and may not
necessarily reflect the views of Air New Zealand.
_____________________________________________________________________
For more information on the Air New Zealand Group, visit us online
at http://www.airnewzealand.com
_____________________________________________________________________

---
Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz

RE: What's this car worth?

2004-06-17 17:06:00

<Doig, Richard>

Sigh,

As you stated, same clamping force, therefore force is unchanged.

Larger diameter clutch, so you have moved the centreline of the friction
surface outwards (ie. distance is increased).

Same force, greater clamp distance means the torque capability is
increased...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: bounce-34395-27@list.supras.org.nz
> [mailto:bounce-34395-27@list.supras.org.nz]On Behalf Of Hunt M
> Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 17:01
> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [sconz] What's this car worth?
>
>
> Sweet - which means.....
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bounce-34392-72@list.supras.org.nz
> [mailto:bounce-34392-72@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Doig, Richard
> Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 4:46 p.m.
> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [sconz] What's this car worth?
>
> Torque = force x distance
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bounce-34390-27@list.supras.org.nz
> > [mailto:bounce-34390-27@list.supras.org.nz]On Behalf Of Hunt M
> > Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 16:44
> > To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: [sconz] What's this car worth?
> >
> >
> > Ok so let me get this right - for examples sake if you had a
> > 8inch diameter
> > clutch and a 9inch diameter clutch with a 2000lbs pressure
> > plate - both full
> > face clutch plates - the 9inch would be able to handle and
> > grip more than
> > the 8inch?
> >
> > Cheers
> > Hunt
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bounce-34389-72@list.supras.org.nz
> > [mailto:bounce-34389-72@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of
> > Peter Nield (DSL
> > AK)
> > Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 4:40 p.m.
> > To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: [sconz] What's this car worth?
> >
> > Yes, less pounds per square inch with a greater clamped
> area. But the
> > same total clamping force...
> >
> > If you keep the clamped area the same and increase the
> diameter, more
> > torque can be transferred for the same clamping force.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bounce-34387-33@list.supras.org.nz
> > [mailto:bounce-34387-33@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Hunt M
> > Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 4:31 p.m.
> > To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: [sconz] What's this car worth?
> >
> > But surely a larger diameter clutch has a greater surface area and
> > therefore less pressure per square inch.....
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bounce-34370-72@list.supras.org.nz
> > [mailto:bounce-34370-72@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Stuart
> > Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 10:17 a.m.
> > To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [sconz] What's this car worth?
> >
> > On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:05, 5uprah@supras.co.nz wrote:
> > > Hey,
> > > In reply to your comment saying how a W box and clutch
> > would not be up
> >
> > > to handle a 1JZ - sure they box wouldn't but why not the clutch?
> > > Standard clutch perhaps not but you must be able to get a
> > fairly mean
> > > clutch to fit onto a W box set up?
> >
> > W clutches are quite small size, and for clutches, to a
> large extent,
> > size DOES matter - the gripping force goes up by around
> > diameter^2.5 so
> > a clutch 20% wider has 60% more gripping power.
> >
> > Yes, I'm sure you could build a hell-clutch in W size that
> would quite
> > easily hold a 1jzgte in standard form, but it would not be
> > fun to drive
> > around..
> > And
> > once you modded the 1jz...
> >
> > Regards,
> > Stuart W.
> >
> > ---
> > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> > sponsored
> > by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> > sponsored
> > by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
> >
> > ---
> > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> > Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> http://www.turbo.co.nz
>
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
http://www.turbo.co.nz

____________________________________________________________________
CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential
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If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby
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of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in
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in this message are those of the individual sender and may not
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_____________________________________________________________________

---
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Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz

---
Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz

____________________________________________________________________
CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential
information intended only for the use of the addressee named above.
If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby
notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction
of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in
error please notify Air New Zealand immediately. Any views expressed
in this message are those of the individual sender and may not
necessarily reflect the views of Air New Zealand.
_____________________________________________________________________
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at http://www.airnewzealand.com
_____________________________________________________________________

RE: What's this car worth?

2004-06-17 17:07:00

<Peter Nield \(DSL AK\)>

Lets make some assumptions:
2 inch wide band of claming material for both clutches.
Co-efficent of friction of 1

Clamped Areas (=pi * [ [outside dia/2]^2-[inside dia/2]^2 ])
- 9 inch clutch has 25 sq inch of clamped area
- 8 inch clutch has 22 sq inch of clamped area

Clamping pressure = clamping force / clamped area
- 9 inch clutch has 80 lbs/sq inch of clamping force
- 8 inch clutch has 90.1 lbs/sq inch of clamping force

Now lets look at the torque the outside 0.1" of each clutch can transfer
before slipping.

Area in the outside 0.1"
- 9 inch clutch has 1.406 sq inch
- 8 inch clutch has 1.249 sq inch

Force applied to outside 0.1" (clamped area * clamping pressure)
- 9 inch clutch has 112.5 lbs
- 8 inch clutch has 112.4 lbs

Therefore the torque that can be transferred by the outside 0.1:
- 9 inch torque = 503.4 lb inch or 41.95 lb ft ([8.95 inch /2]*112.5
lbs)
- 8 inch torque = 446.8 lb inch or 37.23 lb ft ([7.95 inch /2]*112.5
lbs)

And there's all the other 0.1" to add up. I couldn't be bothered doing
the integration right now...

And if the clamped areas were the same for both the 9" and 8" clutch,
the 9" clutch pass even more torque, since it's claming pressue would
also be the same, but it would have a greated diameter to work with.

-----Original Message-----
From: bounce-34390-33@list.supras.org.nz
[mailto:bounce-34390-33@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Hunt M
Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 4:44 p.m.
To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
Subject: RE: [sconz] What's this car worth?

Ok so let me get this right - for examples sake if you had a 8inch
diameter clutch and a 9inch diameter clutch with a 2000lbs pressure
plate - both full face clutch plates - the 9inch would be able to handle
and grip more than the 8inch?

Cheers
Hunt

-----Original Message-----
From: bounce-34389-72@list.supras.org.nz
[mailto:bounce-34389-72@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Peter Nield
(DSL
AK)
Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 4:40 p.m.
To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
Subject: RE: [sconz] What's this car worth?

Yes, less pounds per square inch with a greater clamped area. But the
same total clamping force...

If you keep the clamped area the same and increase the diameter, more
torque can be transferred for the same clamping force.

-----Original Message-----
From: bounce-34387-33@list.supras.org.nz
[mailto:bounce-34387-33@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Hunt M
Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 4:31 p.m.
To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
Subject: RE: [sconz] What's this car worth?

But surely a larger diameter clutch has a greater surface area and
therefore less pressure per square inch.....

-----Original Message-----
From: bounce-34370-72@list.supras.org.nz
[mailto:bounce-34370-72@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Stuart
Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 10:17 a.m.
To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
Subject: Re: [sconz] What's this car worth?

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:05, 5uprah@supras.co.nz wrote:
> Hey,
> In reply to your comment saying how a W box and clutch would not be up

> to handle a 1JZ - sure they box wouldn't but why not the clutch?
> Standard clutch perhaps not but you must be able to get a fairly mean
> clutch to fit onto a W box set up?

W clutches are quite small size, and for clutches, to a large extent,
size DOES matter - the gripping force goes up by around diameter^2.5 so
a clutch 20% wider has 60% more gripping power.

Yes, I'm sure you could build a hell-clutch in W size that would quite
easily hold a 1jzgte in standard form, but it would not be fun to drive
around..
And
once you modded the 1jz...

Regards,
Stuart W.

Re: What's this car worth?

2004-06-17 17:40:00

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:30, Hunt M wrote:
> But surely a larger diameter clutch has a greater surface area and
> therefore less pressure per square inch.....

Unfortunately friction is not linear with preasure, otherwise this would be
true.
It's the diameter that makes the huge difference here, not the friction.
as you move further from the center of a clutch, the surface is operating
through a better 'gearing', therefore works better (simple enough? hmm...)

Want a little calculus? well, lets try and avoid that, and just get ballpark
figures..
Imagine a certain thin slice right around the clutch, of width aw, and center
radius ad (ie: a bit like a doughnut of material)

The amount of material in this 'slice' is:
(pi*(ad+aw/2)^2)-(pi*(ad-aw/2)^2)
As we can see, for constants of pi and aw (ie: a constant width slice) the
area increases proportional to ad^2, or the square of the diameter, so:
factor 1, surface area is proportional to radius squared

next, the force the material sees is inversely proportional to it's radial
position (think of a simple level - the longer it is, the less force you
need... basic physics)
factor 2, localised force reduces in proportion to radius

however, the clamping force does of course reduce with the total contact area,
which for a clutch of radius cr is:
pi*cr^2
factor 3:clamping force reduces with the square of the radius

but, friction is a HIGHLY non-linear effect, especially at low total contact
speeds, and the speed a band of material from factor 1 is moving at is lower
with more radius, because the distance around the perimeter of a given band
of material is proportional to it's radius.
factor 4:materials instantaneous speed proportionally reduced with radius.

now, where do these factors get us? (without bothering with the REAL math
here.. just to get a ballpark idea..)

better with radius:
factor 1, x^2
factor 2, x
factor 4, x
worse with radius:
factor 3, x^2

HOWEVER, friction is not linearly dependent on clamping force, it is between
linear and square root function, so factor 3 reduces to closer to x^1.5
so, we get a total factor of around x^4 less x^1.5, so around x^2.5

Qhat this all boils down to is that it's the material out around the edge of
your clutch that does most of the work, and a small increase in clutch radius
gives a LARGE increase in holding power, even for exactly the same total
clamping force.

A clutch of twice the radius would have around 5.6 TIMES the holding force of
a smaller clutch. Youu can see why they don't bother putting any friction
material in the center of clutches!! ;)

Larger clutches also have much better ability to soak up heat, although they
do make a much larger mess if they grenade at high rpm..

Regards,
Stuart W.

RE: What's this car worth?

2004-06-17 17:45:00

Similar to opening a door - hard to push the door when closer to the centre
but a easier when opened from the outer edge.... same as stopping a door
closing - very hard if you try to stop it with your hand close to the hinge
but easy if you try to stop it with your hand closer to the outer edge...???

Close?

-----Original Message-----
From: bounce-34396-72@list.supras.org.nz
[mailto:bounce-34396-72@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Doig, Richard
Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 5:06 p.m.
To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
Subject: RE: [sconz] What's this car worth?

Sigh,

As you stated, same clamping force, therefore force is unchanged.

Larger diameter clutch, so you have moved the centreline of the friction
surface outwards (ie. distance is increased).

Same force, greater clamp distance means the torque capability is
increased...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: bounce-34395-27@list.supras.org.nz
> [mailto:bounce-34395-27@list.supras.org.nz]On Behalf Of Hunt M
> Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 17:01
> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [sconz] What's this car worth?
>
>
> Sweet - which means.....
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bounce-34392-72@list.supras.org.nz
> [mailto:bounce-34392-72@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Doig, Richard
> Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 4:46 p.m.
> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [sconz] What's this car worth?
>
> Torque = force x distance
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bounce-34390-27@list.supras.org.nz
> > [mailto:bounce-34390-27@list.supras.org.nz]On Behalf Of Hunt M
> > Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 16:44
> > To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: [sconz] What's this car worth?
> >
> >
> > Ok so let me get this right - for examples sake if you had a
> > 8inch diameter
> > clutch and a 9inch diameter clutch with a 2000lbs pressure
> > plate - both full
> > face clutch plates - the 9inch would be able to handle and
> > grip more than
> > the 8inch?
> >
> > Cheers
> > Hunt
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bounce-34389-72@list.supras.org.nz
> > [mailto:bounce-34389-72@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of
> > Peter Nield (DSL
> > AK)
> > Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 4:40 p.m.
> > To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: [sconz] What's this car worth?
> >
> > Yes, less pounds per square inch with a greater clamped
> area. But the
> > same total clamping force...
> >
> > If you keep the clamped area the same and increase the
> diameter, more
> > torque can be transferred for the same clamping force.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bounce-34387-33@list.supras.org.nz
> > [mailto:bounce-34387-33@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Hunt M
> > Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 4:31 p.m.
> > To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: [sconz] What's this car worth?
> >
> > But surely a larger diameter clutch has a greater surface area and
> > therefore less pressure per square inch.....
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bounce-34370-72@list.supras.org.nz
> > [mailto:bounce-34370-72@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Stuart
> > Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2004 10:17 a.m.
> > To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [sconz] What's this car worth?
> >
> > On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:05, 5uprah@supras.co.nz wrote:
> > > Hey,
> > > In reply to your comment saying how a W box and clutch
> > would not be up
> >
> > > to handle a 1JZ - sure they box wouldn't but why not the clutch?
> > > Standard clutch perhaps not but you must be able to get a
> > fairly mean
> > > clutch to fit onto a W box set up?
> >
> > W clutches are quite small size, and for clutches, to a
> large extent,
> > size DOES matter - the gripping force goes up by around
> > diameter^2.5 so
> > a clutch 20% wider has 60% more gripping power.
> >
> > Yes, I'm sure you could build a hell-clutch in W size that
> would quite
> > easily hold a 1jzgte in standard form, but it would not be
> > fun to drive
> > around..
> > And
> > once you modded the 1jz...
> >
> > Regards,
> > Stuart W.
> >
> > ---
> > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> > sponsored
> > by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> > sponsored
> > by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
> >
> > ---
> > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> > Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> http://www.turbo.co.nz
>
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
http://www.turbo.co.nz

____________________________________________________________________
CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential
information intended only for the use of the addressee named above.
If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby
notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction
of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in
error please notify Air New Zealand immediately. Any views expressed
in this message are those of the individual sender and may not
necessarily reflect the views of Air New Zealand.
_____________________________________________________________________
For more information on the Air New Zealand Group, visit us online
at http://www.airnewzealand.com
_____________________________________________________________________

---
Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz

---
Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz

____________________________________________________________________
CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential
information intended only for the use of the addressee named above.
If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby
notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction
of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in
error please notify Air New Zealand immediately. Any views expressed
in this message are those of the individual sender and may not
necessarily reflect the views of Air New Zealand.
_____________________________________________________________________
For more information on the Air New Zealand Group, visit us online
at http://www.airnewzealand.com
_____________________________________________________________________

---
Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz

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