Lyris - Email Marketing Software
Current forum: sconz |
You are: not logged in
messages search conference my_account my_forums all_forums about help
Create New Message
WOF gained   2005-03-06 23:48:00 <5uprah@...>
Not sure why but my previous email about this didnt come
through.
Went for my warrent today (sunday) and passed.
Had to change my left hand side tie rod due to it having
slight play (better to be safe than sorry right guys!) and
changed the drivers side too as the boot was split and the
tie rod adjuster thing for alignment was siezed on.
Had two 235's but onto the back and the mags had mint 215's
on the front. Flew through without any mention of the
external *cough cough*

Next on the list is a rego and a full alignment.

In question about the wheel alignment - due to lowering my
camber is rather out - and wondering if there is anything I
could do before taking it to an alignment place to help them
out - i.e. anything I can move, adjust, add or remove?

Cheers
Almost legal tegal

Hunt
Reply

re: WOF gained   2005-03-07 07:20:00 <Brett>
let me guess.. somebody will say "remove your lowered suspension to fix the camber". You can read this forum like a childrens book aye!!

dont worry Hunt, i also have a lowered supra.

Chur

>In question about the wheel alignment - due to lowering my
>camber is rather out - and wondering if there is anything I
>could do before taking it to an alignment place to help them
>out - i.e. anything I can move, adjust, add or remove?
Reply

re: WOF gained   2005-03-07 08:18:00 <Matthew Adair>
the alignment people will do all the altering that they need to.
Providing the mk3 has adjustable rear camber, they will fix that too.

the mk2 doesnt and when you lower the rear end you get lots of positive camber.

Reply

Re: re:WOF gained   2005-03-07 08:57:00 <Hunt M>
well thats what I was really questioning - does the MKIII have adjustable
camber - and to what extent? Has anyone lowered their MKIII and got a full
alignment done?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Adair" <prisoner45@hotmail.com>
To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 8:16 AM
Subject: re:[sconz] WOF gained


> the alignment people will do all the altering that they need to.
> Providing the mk3 has adjustable rear camber, they will fix that too.
>
> the mk2 doesnt and when you lower the rear end you get lots of positive
camber.
>
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>

Reply

Re: re:WOF gained   2005-03-07 09:24:00 <qzm>
On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 08:57:08 +1300, Hunt M <5uprah@supras.co.nz> wrote:
> well thats what I was really questioning - does the MKIII have adjustable
> camber - and to what extent? Has anyone lowered their MKIII and got a full
> alignment done?

Depends critically on HOW lowered.

The Mk.3 has a highly adjustable setup, both front and rear, which is
one of the many reasons it can be made to handly very well with the
right setup.

The only adjustment problem I have ever hit is a frozen adjuster, or
simply running out of adjustment because a suspension member is
knocked a bit out of spec. Usually there will be no problem.

You definately DON'T want any more camber than standard spec for the
car, that is a r4equirement on some shite macpherson strut systems,
etc (read: older BMWs) but just lowers your grip on a good setup like
the supra.

Personally I get everything set to the center of the standard spec in
their computer, except front camber, which I take to the upper edge of
standard spec, and tow, which I have reduced to zero at the rear, and
about 1/2 standard spec in the front, as I like a car that turns in
very agressively, and dont mind a bit of staight line wander.

It all depends critically on your driving style.

If you have been driving with excessive camber, then you will have
been chewing up the edges of your tires terribly, and giving up a LOT
of grip.

Regards,
Stuart.
Reply

Re: re:WOF gained   2005-03-07 09:26:00 <Brenda>
Yep we have our Supras lowered and it's all fully adjustable. When you go
for your alignment make sure you specify you want a four wheel alignment. A
wheel alignment to most is just to stop it pulling one way or the other, so
most places only do front wheels unless you specify otherwise.

AND don't take it to "Midas" or any of the idiot places that don't know cars
properly.

Just think Hunt you could start another flame war by asking who is a "good"
place to take it to ;)

Cheers Brenda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hunt M" <5uprah@supras.co.nz>
To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: re:[sconz] WOF gained


> well thats what I was really questioning - does the MKIII have adjustable
> camber - and to what extent? Has anyone lowered their MKIII and got a full
> alignment done?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matthew Adair" <prisoner45@hotmail.com>
> To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 8:16 AM
> Subject: re:[sconz] WOF gained
>
>
>> the alignment people will do all the altering that they need to.
>> Providing the mk3 has adjustable rear camber, they will fix that too.
>>
>> the mk2 doesnt and when you lower the rear end you get lots of positive
> camber.
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
>> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>>
>
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>
Reply

Re: re:WOF gained   2005-03-07 09:51:00 <Matthew Adair>
or he could ask where a good place (minus quotation marks) is and people will give him a sensible answer.

firestone westgate did a good job on my car when i took it there.

only $50 or so.

ga70s are really "good" ;)
Reply

Re: Re:re:WOF gained   2005-03-07 10:02:00 <Hunt M>
I remember a place called AutoAlign - I remember ages ago these people were
recommended - has anyone delt with them since?

Cheers

Hunt

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Adair" <prisoner45@hotmail.com>
To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 9:49 AM
Subject: Re:[sconz] re:WOF gained


> or he could ask where a good place (minus quotation marks) is and people
will give him a sensible answer.
>
> firestone westgate did a good job on my car when i took it there.
>
> only $50 or so.
>
> ga70s are really "good" ;)
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>

Reply

RE: Re:re:WOF gained   2005-03-07 10:03:00 <Doig, Richard>
The Mt Wellington branch is excellent, but they don't do $35 alignments...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: bounce-40537-27@list.supras.org.nz [mailto:bounce-40537-
> 27@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Hunt M
> Sent: Monday, 7 March 2005 10:02 a.m.
> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Re:[sconz] re:WOF gained
>
> I remember a place called AutoAlign - I remember ages ago these people
> were
> recommended - has anyone delt with them since?
>
> Cheers
>
> Hunt
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matthew Adair" <prisoner45@hotmail.com>
> To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 9:49 AM
> Subject: Re:[sconz] re:WOF gained
>
>
> > or he could ask where a good place (minus quotation marks) is and people
> will give him a sensible answer.
> >
> > firestone westgate did a good job on my car when i took it there.
> >
> > only $50 or so.
> >
> > ga70s are really "good" ;)
> > ---
> > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> > Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> http://www.turbo.co.nz
> >
>
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz

____________________________________________________________________
CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential
information intended only for the use of the addressee named above.
If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby
notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction
of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in
error please notify Air New Zealand immediately. Any views expressed
in this message are those of the individual sender and may not
necessarily reflect the views of Air New Zealand.
_____________________________________________________________________
For more information on the Air New Zealand Group, visit us online
at http://www.airnewzealand.com
_____________________________________________________________________
Reply

RE: Re:re:WOF gained   2005-03-07 10:07:00 <Matthew Adair>
$35 wheel alignment? who does that?

Mine was $50-$60 i cant remember, from firestone.

They did a full laser alignment and gave a full print out of what they did etc.

the car felt brand new afterwards (comparatively speaking)

i have seen small garages use a grude method of this deivce thatyou drive backwards and forwards on, and then they have to make adjustments in stages.

if you were to pay much more than $50 -$60 i would hope that they wash your car as well.

Reply

RE: Re:re:WOF gained   2005-03-07 10:15:00 <Doig, Richard>
Dodgy Auckland tyre places do them for $35, but you have to show them how to
do it as they have no training and are clueless.

I pay about $90 from memory. This is to have the car set up well by someone
that knows what they are doing (ie. does not just adjust it until the lights
turn green). This includes camber plates and coil-overs as required.

As for how often alignments are required, how often do you drive into
things? ;-)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: bounce-40539-27@list.supras.org.nz [mailto:bounce-40539-
> 27@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Matthew Adair
> Sent: Monday, 7 March 2005 10:05 a.m.
> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
> Subject: RE:[sconz] Re:re:WOF gained
>
> $35 wheel alignment? who does that?
>
> Mine was $50-$60 i cant remember, from firestone.
>
> They did a full laser alignment and gave a full print out of what they did
> etc.
>
> the car felt brand new afterwards (comparatively speaking)
>
> i have seen small garages use a grude method of this deivce thatyou drive
> backwards and forwards on, and then they have to make adjustments in
> stages.
>
> if you were to pay much more than $50 -$60 i would hope that they wash
> your car as well.
>
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz

____________________________________________________________________
CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential
information intended only for the use of the addressee named above.
If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby
notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction
of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in
error please notify Air New Zealand immediately. Any views expressed
in this message are those of the individual sender and may not
necessarily reflect the views of Air New Zealand.
_____________________________________________________________________
For more information on the Air New Zealand Group, visit us online
at http://www.airnewzealand.com
_____________________________________________________________________
Reply

RE: Re:re:WOF gained   2005-03-07 10:18:00 <Matthew Adair>
sounds like you had slightly more done that what i had (stock suspension mostly, lowered at the front)

But the guy talked to me about how i drove, talked to me about the stock specs etc. and set the alignment. toe etc to suit.

handles like a demon now.
Reply

Re: Re:re:WOF gained   2005-03-07 10:19:00 <Hunt M>
How often to I drive into things? Well for the first time about 2 weeks ago
I scuffed the curb a little with my 15's and have not driven into anything
in the 3 years of owning my baby - but in that 3 years I haven't had an
aligment done even after lowering (I know, i know - silly boy)

But that will soon change :)

Hunt

----- Original Message -----
From: "Doig, Richard" <Richard.Doig@airnz.co.nz>
To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 10:14 AM
Subject: RE: [sconz] Re:re:WOF gained


> Dodgy Auckland tyre places do them for $35, but you have to show them how
to
> do it as they have no training and are clueless.
>
> I pay about $90 from memory. This is to have the car set up well by
someone
> that knows what they are doing (ie. does not just adjust it until the
lights
> turn green). This includes camber plates and coil-overs as required.
>
> As for how often alignments are required, how often do you drive into
> things? ;-)
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bounce-40539-27@list.supras.org.nz [mailto:bounce-40539-
> > 27@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Matthew Adair
> > Sent: Monday, 7 March 2005 10:05 a.m.
> > To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
> > Subject: RE:[sconz] Re:re:WOF gained
> >
> > $35 wheel alignment? who does that?
> >
> > Mine was $50-$60 i cant remember, from firestone.
> >
> > They did a full laser alignment and gave a full print out of what they
did
> > etc.
> >
> > the car felt brand new afterwards (comparatively speaking)
> >
> > i have seen small garages use a grude method of this deivce thatyou
drive
> > backwards and forwards on, and then they have to make adjustments in
> > stages.
> >
> > if you were to pay much more than $50 -$60 i would hope that they wash
> > your car as well.
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> > Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
http://www.turbo.co.nz
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential
> information intended only for the use of the addressee named above.
> If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby
> notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction
> of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in
> error please notify Air New Zealand immediately. Any views expressed
> in this message are those of the individual sender and may not
> necessarily reflect the views of Air New Zealand.
> _____________________________________________________________________
> For more information on the Air New Zealand Group, visit us online
> at http://www.airnewzealand.com
> _____________________________________________________________________
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>

Reply

re:WOF gained   2005-03-07 10:46:00 <Marc Archbold>

And you enjoy chewed tyres too?

> dont worry Hunt, i also have a lowered supra.
>
> Chur
>
> >In question about the wheel alignment - due to lowering my
> >camber is rather out - and wondering if there is anything I
> >could do before taking it to an alignment place to help them
> >out - i.e. anything I can move, adjust, add or remove?
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> http://www.turbo.co.nz
>

Reply

Re: re:WOF gained   2005-03-07 10:55:00 <Hunt M>
well in theory if a proper alignment is done you wont chew out tyres??

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc Archbold" <marc.a@paradise.net.nz>
To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 10:45 AM
Subject: re:[sconz] WOF gained


>
> And you enjoy chewed tyres too?
>
> > dont worry Hunt, i also have a lowered supra.
> >
> > Chur
> >
> > >In question about the wheel alignment - due to lowering my
> > >camber is rather out - and wondering if there is anything I
> > >could do before taking it to an alignment place to help them
> > >out - i.e. anything I can move, adjust, add or remove?
> > ---
> > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> > Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> > http://www.turbo.co.nz
> >
>
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>

Reply

Re: re:WOF gained   2005-03-07 11:13:00 <Marc Archbold>

As I understand it, if you dont go any lower than around 1" a realignment will
be possible on the factory setup.

Cheers,
Marc


> well in theory if a proper alignment is done you wont chew out tyres??
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marc Archbold" <marc.a@paradise.net.nz>
> To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 10:45 AM
> Subject: re:[sconz] WOF gained
>
>
> >
> > And you enjoy chewed tyres too?
> >
> > > dont worry Hunt, i also have a lowered supra.
> > >
> > > Chur
> > >
> > > >In question about the wheel alignment - due to lowering my
> > > >camber is rather out - and wondering if there is anything I
> > > >could do before taking it to an alignment place to help them
> > > >out - i.e. anything I can move, adjust, add or remove?
> > > ---
> > > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> > > Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> > > http://www.turbo.co.nz
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> > Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> http://www.turbo.co.nz
> >
>
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> http://www.turbo.co.nz
>

Reply

Re: re:WOF gained   2005-03-07 11:29:00 <Hunt M>
Well i'm alot lower than 1" so we'll see how we go - will go for one this
weekend money permitting

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc Archbold" <marc.a@paradise.net.nz>
To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: re:[sconz] WOF gained


>
> As I understand it, if you dont go any lower than around 1" a realignment
will
> be possible on the factory setup.
>
> Cheers,
> Marc
>
>
> > well in theory if a proper alignment is done you wont chew out tyres??
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Marc Archbold" <marc.a@paradise.net.nz>
> > To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> > Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 10:45 AM
> > Subject: re:[sconz] WOF gained
> >
> >
> > >
> > > And you enjoy chewed tyres too?
> > >
> > > > dont worry Hunt, i also have a lowered supra.
> > > >
> > > > Chur
> > > >
> > > > >In question about the wheel alignment - due to lowering my
> > > > >camber is rather out - and wondering if there is anything I
> > > > >could do before taking it to an alignment place to help them
> > > > >out - i.e. anything I can move, adjust, add or remove?
> > > > ---
> > > > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> > > > Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> > > > http://www.turbo.co.nz
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> > > Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> > http://www.turbo.co.nz
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> > Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> > http://www.turbo.co.nz
> >
>
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>

Reply

re: WOF gained   2005-03-07 14:11:00 <Brett>
my supra is lowered similar height to yours hunt, and when i get a wheel alignment you cannot get that close to standard camber. they can adjust it to improve it, but only by a degree or a degree and a half at the most. be careful that the tabs on the plate surrounding the adjustment cam dont bend. that happened to mine, and its a prick. requires seam welding to reshape them again.

u will find it handles much better after an alignment. and like everyone says.. take it to a place where they know what they are doing. "dodgy" alignments for $35 often make your alignment worse!!

cheers

Brett
Reply

RE: WOF gained   2005-03-07 14:24:00 <Cully Paterson>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brett [mailto:brestu97@aut.ac.nz]
> Subject: re:[sconz] WOF gained
>
> my supra is lowered similar height to yours hunt, and when i
> get a wheel alignment you cannot get that close to standard
> camber. they can adjust it to improve it, but only by a
> degree or a degree and a half at the most. be careful that
> the tabs on the plate surrounding the adjustment cam dont
> bend. that happened to mine, and its a prick. requires seam
> welding to reshape them again.
>
> u will find it handles much better after an alignment. and
> like everyone says.. take it to a place where they know what
> they are doing. "dodgy" alignments for $35 often make your
> alignment worse!!


What you guys don't seem to understand is that taking a car for an
alignment only sets the >static< alignment for the vehicle. Once you
start cornering the suspension design is what causes the vehicle to
retain 'correct' alignment. (significantly) Lowering the vehicle means
that you reduce the suspension travel, thus reducing the amount of
additional negative camber that the car produces when it corners. ie
your tyres are less in contact with the road than they would be if you
maintained the correct ride height - they are riding more on the edges
and less on the flat of the tyre.

It's all a trade off. If you really want those lowered looks, then to
maintain the same level of cornering ability you're going to have to
sacrifice straight line grip and stability. If you roll into an
alignment shop with lowered suspension and ask for a stock set-up then
you're getting worst of both worlds.

Cully
Reply

Re: WOF gained   2005-03-07 14:43:00 <Hunt M>
Ok thanks for the info, but - you say "If you roll into an alignment shop
with lowered suspension and ask for a stock set-up then you're getting worst
of both worlds." - so what should I (and anyone else that's lowered their
Supras) ask for?

Thanks
Hunt

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cully Paterson" <Cully@supras.org.nz>
To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 2:23 PM
Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brett [mailto:brestu97@aut.ac.nz]
> Subject: re:[sconz] WOF gained
>
> my supra is lowered similar height to yours hunt, and when i
> get a wheel alignment you cannot get that close to standard
> camber. they can adjust it to improve it, but only by a
> degree or a degree and a half at the most. be careful that
> the tabs on the plate surrounding the adjustment cam dont
> bend. that happened to mine, and its a prick. requires seam
> welding to reshape them again.
>
> u will find it handles much better after an alignment. and
> like everyone says.. take it to a place where they know what
> they are doing. "dodgy" alignments for $35 often make your
> alignment worse!!


What you guys don't seem to understand is that taking a car for an
alignment only sets the >static< alignment for the vehicle. Once you
start cornering the suspension design is what causes the vehicle to
retain 'correct' alignment. (significantly) Lowering the vehicle means
that you reduce the suspension travel, thus reducing the amount of
additional negative camber that the car produces when it corners. ie
your tyres are less in contact with the road than they would be if you
maintained the correct ride height - they are riding more on the edges
and less on the flat of the tyre.

It's all a trade off. If you really want those lowered looks, then to
maintain the same level of cornering ability you're going to have to
sacrifice straight line grip and stability. If you roll into an
alignment shop with lowered suspension and ask for a stock set-up then
you're getting worst of both worlds.

Cully

---
Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz


Reply

RE: WOF gained   2005-03-07 14:49:00 <Cully Paterson>
Couldn't tell you in absolute terms. You'll need to find a place who
genuinely understand suspension and the impact of what they're doing.
If you can find a place like that, then go in armed with what your stock
ride heights should be, and they ought to be able to work out a
reasonable compromise.

But short of getting on a skidpan with a G-meter or sitting down and
doing a bunch of calculations, it's really best guess stuff. So it's
best to find someone with good guess skills...

Cully

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hunt M [mailto:5uprah@supras.co.nz]
> Sent: Monday, 7 March 2005 2:43 p.m.
> To: SCONZ.list Forward
> Subject: Re: [sconz] WOF gained
>
> Ok thanks for the info, but - you say "If you roll into an
> alignment shop with lowered suspension and ask for a stock
> set-up then you're getting worst of both worlds." - so what
> should I (and anyone else that's lowered their
> Supras) ask for?
>
> Thanks
> Hunt
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cully Paterson" <Cully@supras.org.nz>
> To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 2:23 PM
> Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Brett [mailto:brestu97@aut.ac.nz]
> > Subject: re:[sconz] WOF gained
> >
> > my supra is lowered similar height to yours hunt, and when i get a
> > wheel alignment you cannot get that close to standard camber. they
> > can adjust it to improve it, but only by a degree or a degree and a
> > half at the most. be careful that the tabs on the plate surrounding
> > the adjustment cam dont bend. that happened to mine, and
> its a prick.
> > requires seam welding to reshape them again.
> >
> > u will find it handles much better after an alignment. and like
> > everyone says.. take it to a place where they know what they are
> > doing. "dodgy" alignments for $35 often make your alignment worse!!
>
>
> What you guys don't seem to understand is that taking a car
> for an alignment only sets the >static< alignment for the
> vehicle. Once you start cornering the suspension design is
> what causes the vehicle to retain 'correct' alignment.
> (significantly) Lowering the vehicle means that you reduce
> the suspension travel, thus reducing the amount of additional
> negative camber that the car produces when it corners. ie
> your tyres are less in contact with the road than they would
> be if you maintained the correct ride height - they are
> riding more on the edges and less on the flat of the tyre.
>
> It's all a trade off. If you really want those lowered
> looks, then to maintain the same level of cornering ability
> you're going to have to sacrifice straight line grip and
> stability. If you roll into an alignment shop with lowered
> suspension and ask for a stock set-up then you're getting
> worst of both worlds.
>
> Cully
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>
>
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>
Reply

Re: WOF gained   2005-03-07 14:51:00 <Hunt M>
Ok well I don't know anyone that has a stock ride height GA-70 - is there
anyone on here with one that can post up ride heights?

Thanks

Hunt

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cully Paterson" <Cully@supras.org.nz>
To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 2:48 PM
Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained


Couldn't tell you in absolute terms. You'll need to find a place who
genuinely understand suspension and the impact of what they're doing.
If you can find a place like that, then go in armed with what your stock
ride heights should be, and they ought to be able to work out a
reasonable compromise.

But short of getting on a skidpan with a G-meter or sitting down and
doing a bunch of calculations, it's really best guess stuff. So it's
best to find someone with good guess skills...

Cully

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hunt M [mailto:5uprah@supras.co.nz]
> Sent: Monday, 7 March 2005 2:43 p.m.
> To: SCONZ.list Forward
> Subject: Re: [sconz] WOF gained
>
> Ok thanks for the info, but - you say "If you roll into an
> alignment shop with lowered suspension and ask for a stock
> set-up then you're getting worst of both worlds." - so what
> should I (and anyone else that's lowered their
> Supras) ask for?
>
> Thanks
> Hunt
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cully Paterson" <Cully@supras.org.nz>
> To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 2:23 PM
> Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Brett [mailto:brestu97@aut.ac.nz]
> > Subject: re:[sconz] WOF gained
> >
> > my supra is lowered similar height to yours hunt, and when i get a
> > wheel alignment you cannot get that close to standard camber. they
> > can adjust it to improve it, but only by a degree or a degree and a
> > half at the most. be careful that the tabs on the plate surrounding
> > the adjustment cam dont bend. that happened to mine, and
> its a prick.
> > requires seam welding to reshape them again.
> >
> > u will find it handles much better after an alignment. and like
> > everyone says.. take it to a place where they know what they are
> > doing. "dodgy" alignments for $35 often make your alignment worse!!
>
>
> What you guys don't seem to understand is that taking a car
> for an alignment only sets the >static< alignment for the
> vehicle. Once you start cornering the suspension design is
> what causes the vehicle to retain 'correct' alignment.
> (significantly) Lowering the vehicle means that you reduce
> the suspension travel, thus reducing the amount of additional
> negative camber that the car produces when it corners. ie
> your tyres are less in contact with the road than they would
> be if you maintained the correct ride height - they are
> riding more on the edges and less on the flat of the tyre.
>
> It's all a trade off. If you really want those lowered
> looks, then to maintain the same level of cornering ability
> you're going to have to sacrifice straight line grip and
> stability. If you roll into an alignment shop with lowered
> suspension and ask for a stock set-up then you're getting
> worst of both worlds.
>
> Cully
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>
>
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>

---
Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz


Reply

Re: WOF gained   2005-03-07 15:00:00 <John Rosser>
recently looked at the tsrm looking for wheel offset and size info, found
that stock ride hight at the front of a mk3 is 201mm, i think at the
mounting point of the lower a-arm (can't remember correctly)

i know that a good drop in height for a mk3 is about 1.5 inch. if doing
this, what is a good setup for the suspension? keeping what you said cully
about static alignment etc in mind.

john R

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hunt M" <5uprah@supras.co.nz>
To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [sconz] WOF gained


> Ok well I don't know anyone that has a stock ride height GA-70 - is there
> anyone on here with one that can post up ride heights?
>
> Thanks
>
> Hunt
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cully Paterson" <Cully@supras.org.nz>
> To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 2:48 PM
> Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained
>
>
> Couldn't tell you in absolute terms. You'll need to find a place who
> genuinely understand suspension and the impact of what they're doing.
> If you can find a place like that, then go in armed with what your stock
> ride heights should be, and they ought to be able to work out a
> reasonable compromise.
>
> But short of getting on a skidpan with a G-meter or sitting down and
> doing a bunch of calculations, it's really best guess stuff. So it's
> best to find someone with good guess skills...
>
> Cully
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Hunt M [mailto:5uprah@supras.co.nz]
>> Sent: Monday, 7 March 2005 2:43 p.m.
>> To: SCONZ.list Forward
>> Subject: Re: [sconz] WOF gained
>>
>> Ok thanks for the info, but - you say "If you roll into an
>> alignment shop with lowered suspension and ask for a stock
>> set-up then you're getting worst of both worlds." - so what
>> should I (and anyone else that's lowered their
>> Supras) ask for?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Hunt
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Cully Paterson" <Cully@supras.org.nz>
>> To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
>> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 2:23 PM
>> Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Brett [mailto:brestu97@aut.ac.nz]
>> > Subject: re:[sconz] WOF gained
>> >
>> > my supra is lowered similar height to yours hunt, and when i get a
>> > wheel alignment you cannot get that close to standard camber. they
>> > can adjust it to improve it, but only by a degree or a degree and a
>> > half at the most. be careful that the tabs on the plate surrounding
>> > the adjustment cam dont bend. that happened to mine, and
>> its a prick.
>> > requires seam welding to reshape them again.
>> >
>> > u will find it handles much better after an alignment. and like
>> > everyone says.. take it to a place where they know what they are
>> > doing. "dodgy" alignments for $35 often make your alignment worse!!
>>
>>
>> What you guys don't seem to understand is that taking a car
>> for an alignment only sets the >static< alignment for the
>> vehicle. Once you start cornering the suspension design is
>> what causes the vehicle to retain 'correct' alignment.
>> (significantly) Lowering the vehicle means that you reduce
>> the suspension travel, thus reducing the amount of additional
>> negative camber that the car produces when it corners. ie
>> your tyres are less in contact with the road than they would
>> be if you maintained the correct ride height - they are
>> riding more on the edges and less on the flat of the tyre.
>>
>> It's all a trade off. If you really want those lowered
>> looks, then to maintain the same level of cornering ability
>> you're going to have to sacrifice straight line grip and
>> stability. If you roll into an alignment shop with lowered
>> suspension and ask for a stock set-up then you're getting
>> worst of both worlds.
>>
>> Cully
>>
>> ---
>> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
>> sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
>> sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>>
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>
>
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 - Release Date: 4/03/2005
>
>

Reply

Re: WOF gained   2005-03-07 15:41:00 <Hunt M>
you're right - 201.5mm front and 219mm back chassis ground clearance.

Hunt

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Rosser" <john_rosser@supras.org.nz>
To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: [sconz] WOF gained


> recently looked at the tsrm looking for wheel offset and size info, found
> that stock ride hight at the front of a mk3 is 201mm, i think at the
> mounting point of the lower a-arm (can't remember correctly)
>
> i know that a good drop in height for a mk3 is about 1.5 inch. if doing
> this, what is a good setup for the suspension? keeping what you said
cully
> about static alignment etc in mind.
>
> john R
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hunt M" <5uprah@supras.co.nz>
> To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 2:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [sconz] WOF gained
>
>
> > Ok well I don't know anyone that has a stock ride height GA-70 - is
there
> > anyone on here with one that can post up ride heights?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Hunt
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Cully Paterson" <Cully@supras.org.nz>
> > To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> > Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 2:48 PM
> > Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained
> >
> >
> > Couldn't tell you in absolute terms. You'll need to find a place who
> > genuinely understand suspension and the impact of what they're doing.
> > If you can find a place like that, then go in armed with what your stock
> > ride heights should be, and they ought to be able to work out a
> > reasonable compromise.
> >
> > But short of getting on a skidpan with a G-meter or sitting down and
> > doing a bunch of calculations, it's really best guess stuff. So it's
> > best to find someone with good guess skills...
> >
> > Cully
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Hunt M [mailto:5uprah@supras.co.nz]
> >> Sent: Monday, 7 March 2005 2:43 p.m.
> >> To: SCONZ.list Forward
> >> Subject: Re: [sconz] WOF gained
> >>
> >> Ok thanks for the info, but - you say "If you roll into an
> >> alignment shop with lowered suspension and ask for a stock
> >> set-up then you're getting worst of both worlds." - so what
> >> should I (and anyone else that's lowered their
> >> Supras) ask for?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Hunt
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Cully Paterson" <Cully@supras.org.nz>
> >> To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> >> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 2:23 PM
> >> Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: Brett [mailto:brestu97@aut.ac.nz]
> >> > Subject: re:[sconz] WOF gained
> >> >
> >> > my supra is lowered similar height to yours hunt, and when i get a
> >> > wheel alignment you cannot get that close to standard camber. they
> >> > can adjust it to improve it, but only by a degree or a degree and a
> >> > half at the most. be careful that the tabs on the plate surrounding
> >> > the adjustment cam dont bend. that happened to mine, and
> >> its a prick.
> >> > requires seam welding to reshape them again.
> >> >
> >> > u will find it handles much better after an alignment. and like
> >> > everyone says.. take it to a place where they know what they are
> >> > doing. "dodgy" alignments for $35 often make your alignment worse!!
> >>
> >>
> >> What you guys don't seem to understand is that taking a car
> >> for an alignment only sets the >static< alignment for the
> >> vehicle. Once you start cornering the suspension design is
> >> what causes the vehicle to retain 'correct' alignment.
> >> (significantly) Lowering the vehicle means that you reduce
> >> the suspension travel, thus reducing the amount of additional
> >> negative camber that the car produces when it corners. ie
> >> your tyres are less in contact with the road than they would
> >> be if you maintained the correct ride height - they are
> >> riding more on the edges and less on the flat of the tyre.
> >>
> >> It's all a trade off. If you really want those lowered
> >> looks, then to maintain the same level of cornering ability
> >> you're going to have to sacrifice straight line grip and
> >> stability. If you roll into an alignment shop with lowered
> >> suspension and ask for a stock set-up then you're getting
> >> worst of both worlds.
> >>
> >> Cully
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> >> sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> >> sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
> >>
> >
> > ---
> > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> > Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
http://www.turbo.co.nz
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> > Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
http://www.turbo.co.nz
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 - Release Date: 4/03/2005
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>

Reply

Re: WOF gained   2005-03-07 16:38:00 <qzm>
On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 01:04:56 -0000, Brett <brestu97@aut.ac.nz> wrote:
> my supra is lowered similar height to yours hunt, and when i get a wheel alignment you cannot get that close to standard camber.

In which case congratulations, you have ruined your supras handling,
have a nice day.

>they can adjust it to improve it, but only by a degree or a degree
and a half at the most. be careful that the tabs on the plate
surrounding the adjustment cam dont bend. that happened to mine, and
its a prick. requires seam welding to reshape them again.
>
> u will find it handles much better after an alignment. and like everyone says.. take it to a place where they know what they are doing. "dodgy" alignments for $35 often make your alignment worse!!

If you cannot achieve proper camber then it may handle better, but it
will still be shit, say good bye to any actual handling performance.
Sigh, and people say lowering *help* handling.

Of course some do it for the 'looks' but if you cannot achieve proper
camber, you have just thrown a bucketload of grip out the window.

Regards,
Stuart.
Reply

Re: WOF gained   2005-03-07 16:39:00 <qzm>
On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 15:05:24 +1300, John Rosser
<john_rosser@supras.org.nz> wrote:
> recently looked at the tsrm looking for wheel offset and size info, found
> that stock ride hight at the front of a mk3 is 201mm, i think at the
> mounting point of the lower a-arm (can't remember correctly)
>
> i know that a good drop in height for a mk3 is about 1.5 inch. if doing
> this, what is a good setup for the suspension? keeping what you said cully
> about static alignment etc in mind.

1.5" is absolute maximum drop to keep any handling, not 'good drop'.
1" is regarded as 'good drop'.

Regards,
Stuart W.
Reply

Re: WOF gained   2005-03-07 16:43:00 <qzm>
On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 14:23:41 +1300, Cully Paterson <Cully@supras.org.nz> wrote:
> What you guys don't seem to understand is that taking a car for an
> alignment only sets the >static< alignment for the vehicle. Once you
> start cornering the suspension design is what causes the vehicle to
> retain 'correct' alignment. (significantly) Lowering the vehicle means
> that you reduce the suspension travel, thus reducing the amount of
> additional negative camber that the car produces when it corners. ie
> your tyres are less in contact with the road than they would be if you
> maintained the correct ride height - they are riding more on the edges
> and less on the flat of the tyre.

All kind of true, but dont forget these are double wishbone suspension
cars, and for all the failings of many 'lowering jobs' they do manage
to maintain their performance better than most.
macpherson strut being of course the worst (no good alignment
possible) and semi trailing arm being in the middle.

This double wishbone, 'stock' alignment is still workable at any
height, not perfect of course, but usable.
> It's all a trade off. If you really want those lowered looks, then to
> maintain the same level of cornering ability you're going to have to
> sacrifice straight line grip and stability. If you roll into an
> alignment shop with lowered suspension and ask for a stock set-up then
> you're getting worst of both worlds.

you would be if you were in a BMW or a Primera..

double wishbone suspension is much more forgiving, but still, as you
imply, exessive lowering does screw up the handling without great
care.

And of course, if it ever touches the bump stops, all bets are off,
you may as well get out and walk around the corner.

Regards,
Stuart W.
Reply

Re: WOF gained   2005-03-07 16:51:00 <Hunt M>
oh the age old argument about lowering - yes yes we all get it that you
think it reduces the handling - great - however - the purpose of this topic
is not to be a boring same old crap not going anywhere argument but for
informative purposes for those of us who actually prefer a lowered supra
(for whatever reason really is not your concern).



----- Original Message -----
From: "qzm" <stuartaw@gmail.com>
To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [sconz] WOF gained


> On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 01:04:56 -0000, Brett <brestu97@aut.ac.nz> wrote:
> > my supra is lowered similar height to yours hunt, and when i get a wheel
alignment you cannot get that close to standard camber.
>
> In which case congratulations, you have ruined your supras handling,
> have a nice day.
>
> >they can adjust it to improve it, but only by a degree or a degree
> and a half at the most. be careful that the tabs on the plate
> surrounding the adjustment cam dont bend. that happened to mine, and
> its a prick. requires seam welding to reshape them again.
> >
> > u will find it handles much better after an alignment. and like everyone
says.. take it to a place where they know what they are doing. "dodgy"
alignments for $35 often make your alignment worse!!
>
> If you cannot achieve proper camber then it may handle better, but it
> will still be shit, say good bye to any actual handling performance.
> Sigh, and people say lowering *help* handling.
>
> Of course some do it for the 'looks' but if you cannot achieve proper
> camber, you have just thrown a bucketload of grip out the window.
>
> Regards,
> Stuart.
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>

Reply

Re: WOF gained   2005-03-07 17:18:00 <Marc Archbold>

"Informative purposes" was that not what Stuart is conveys?

No 'old' argument here - besides what is wrong with 'if you cannot achieve
proper camber, you have just thrown a bucketload of grip out the window.' On
second thoughts, dont answer; a toilet could respond with comparable accuracy.

Regards,
Marc




> oh the age old argument about lowering - yes yes we all get it that you
> think it reduces the handling - great - however - the purpose of this
> topic
> is not to be a boring same old crap not going anywhere argument but for
> informative purposes for those of us who actually prefer a lowered
> supra
> (for whatever reason really is not your concern).
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "qzm" <stuartaw@gmail.com>
> To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 4:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [sconz] WOF gained
>
>
> > On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 01:04:56 -0000, Brett <brestu97@aut.ac.nz> wrote:
> > > my supra is lowered similar height to yours hunt, and when i get a
> wheel
> alignment you cannot get that close to standard camber.
> >
> > In which case congratulations, you have ruined your supras handling,
> > have a nice day.
> >
> > >they can adjust it to improve it, but only by a degree or a degree
> > and a half at the most. be careful that the tabs on the plate
> > surrounding the adjustment cam dont bend. that happened to mine, and
> > its a prick. requires seam welding to reshape them again.
> > >
> > > u will find it handles much better after an alignment. and like
> everyone
> says.. take it to a place where they know what they are doing. "dodgy"
> alignments for $35 often make your alignment worse!!
> >
> > If you cannot achieve proper camber then it may handle better, but it
> > will still be shit, say good bye to any actual handling performance.
> > Sigh, and people say lowering *help* handling.
> >
> > Of course some do it for the 'looks' but if you cannot achieve proper
> > camber, you have just thrown a bucketload of grip out the window.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Stuart.
> >
> > ---
> > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> > Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> http://www.turbo.co.nz
> >
>
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> http://www.turbo.co.nz
>

Reply

Re: WOF gained   2005-03-07 17:33:00 <Hunt M>
FFS Marc

My point was - (perhaps I should slow down - or repeat myself - seems to be
the best thing to do on here) - that we have lowered our Supras - we are
happy with the result of how they look, handle etc - we were asking where to
go for an alignment - however this was replied to with typical Mongolian
babble.

Perhaps Marc instead of replying with a (seemingly to you) smart reply you
could try either offering some advice or suggestions where we could take our
lowered Supras to get a decent alignment done or just simply shush....

Hunt

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc Archbold" <marc.a@paradise.net.nz>
To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [sconz] WOF gained


>
> "Informative purposes" was that not what Stuart is conveys?
>
> No 'old' argument here - besides what is wrong with 'if you cannot achieve
> proper camber, you have just thrown a bucketload of grip out the window.'
On
> second thoughts, dont answer; a toilet could respond with comparable
accuracy.
>
> Regards,
> Marc
>
>
>
>
> > oh the age old argument about lowering - yes yes we all get it that you
> > think it reduces the handling - great - however - the purpose of this
> > topic
> > is not to be a boring same old crap not going anywhere argument but for
> > informative purposes for those of us who actually prefer a lowered
> > supra
> > (for whatever reason really is not your concern).
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "qzm" <stuartaw@gmail.com>
> > To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> > Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 4:38 PM
> > Subject: Re: [sconz] WOF gained
> >
> >
> > > On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 01:04:56 -0000, Brett <brestu97@aut.ac.nz> wrote:
> > > > my supra is lowered similar height to yours hunt, and when i get a
> > wheel
> > alignment you cannot get that close to standard camber.
> > >
> > > In which case congratulations, you have ruined your supras handling,
> > > have a nice day.
> > >
> > > >they can adjust it to improve it, but only by a degree or a degree
> > > and a half at the most. be careful that the tabs on the plate
> > > surrounding the adjustment cam dont bend. that happened to mine, and
> > > its a prick. requires seam welding to reshape them again.
> > > >
> > > > u will find it handles much better after an alignment. and like
> > everyone
> > says.. take it to a place where they know what they are doing. "dodgy"
> > alignments for $35 often make your alignment worse!!
> > >
> > > If you cannot achieve proper camber then it may handle better, but it
> > > will still be shit, say good bye to any actual handling performance.
> > > Sigh, and people say lowering *help* handling.
> > >
> > > Of course some do it for the 'looks' but if you cannot achieve proper
> > > camber, you have just thrown a bucketload of grip out the window.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Stuart.
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> > > Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> > http://www.turbo.co.nz
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> > Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> > http://www.turbo.co.nz
> >
>
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>

Reply

Re: WOF gained   2005-03-07 19:31:00 <qzm>
On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 17:33:18 +1300, Hunt M <5uprah@supras.co.nz> wrote:
> FFS Marc
>
> My point was - (perhaps I should slow down - or repeat myself - seems to be
> the best thing to do on here) - that we have lowered our Supras - we are
> happy with the result of how they look, handle etc - we were asking where to
> go for an alignment - however this was replied to with typical Mongolian
> babble.

That is the difference between you and a lot of people here Hunt, most
people would not consider an accurate description of why an
over-lowered car (and not I never SAID yours was..) to be 'mongolian
babble' whatever that is supposed to be.

Next time you want some suggestions perhaps I should just offer none?
perhaps you feel my descriptions of what suspension settings should
work for you, based on many many many years of supra ownership and
setting up, to be worthless?

> Perhaps Marc instead of replying with a (seemingly to you) smart reply you
> could try either offering some advice or suggestions where we could take our
> lowered Supras to get a decent alignment done or just simply shush....

Pot, meet Kettle.
Reply

re: WOF gained   2005-03-07 19:54:00 <Brett>
sure, everyone can say that lowering your car too much is stupid because you lose grip, lose cornering ability etc etc etc.

what kind of rark up would i bring to this list if i said bolting on big turbos and cranking up boost supras was stupid because you often lose reliability and almost definately have poor fuel economy.

It is a general rule that if you have something that you want (lowered suspension or a more powerful engine) you will lose some kind of good. its not always a win-win situation.

can anybody argue that??

the point is, people can do what they like to their cars but they shouldnt be heckled at. It is good to see people with great knowledge sharing that knowledge like so many of you do. but do we really need to bicker and laugh at one another??

The amount of postings in this club which are absolute s**t is beyond me. it seems like every post turns into an arguement. this is what is gonna turn people away from this forum, and most likely the cats in here who know heaps about our cars.

Cheers

Brett
(Wanting a pointless bulls**t free forum)
Reply

Re: WOF gained   2005-03-07 20:36:00 <qzm>
On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 06:41:58 -0000, Brett <brestu97@aut.ac.nz> wrote:
> sure, everyone can say that lowering your car too much is stupid because you lose grip, lose cornering ability etc etc etc.

No one said it was stupid, just that it CAN cause less good handling,
stop over reacting.

> what kind of rark up would i bring to this list if i said bolting on big turbos and cranking up boost supras was stupid because you often lose reliability and almost definately have poor fuel economy.

Probably none, as people generally know and accept these problems with
doing that.

> It is a general rule that if you have something that you want (lowered suspension or a more powerful engine) you will lose some kind of good. its not always a win-win situation.

Yes, and at the same time yuo should accept the realities of what you
have done, not personally attack anyone who points this out, as hunt
etal have a tendency to do.

> can anybody argue that??

No one is trying to.

> the point is, people can do what they like to their cars but they shouldnt be heckled at. It is good to see people with great knowledge sharing that knowledge like so many of you do. but do we really need to bicker and laugh at one another??

Who is laughing?

> The amount of postings in this club which are absolute s**t is beyond me. it seems like every post turns into an arguement. this is what is gonna turn people away from this forum, and most likely the cats in here who know heaps about our cars.

Certain people need to learn to accept facts, and to accept that if
they enter in to a discussion they will not only hear what they want
to hear, but any other opinions.

You will note that in my posts I *SPECIFICALLY* said that over-lower
is valid, for the reasons of looks, it is just that it compromises
handling. The people who would rather blinker themselves to that are
the ones who then got 'excited'.

THAT is what a list like this is FOR.
I know, I started it.
Reply

Re: re:WOF gained   2005-03-07 20:45:00 <Brenda>
Hunt try Glendene Tyres & ask for Steve or Shore Performance Tyre Shop & ask
for Justin, both these guys know what they are doing with lowered cars as
they both have lowered cars and align them.

Glendene Tyres are at Ph: 83 64173
5/29 Mihini Rd Swanson

Shore Performance Tyre Ph: 489 5653
28 Barry's Pt Rd, Takapuna

Cheers Brenda

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brett" <brestu97@aut.ac.nz>
To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 7:41 PM
Subject: re:[sconz] WOF gained


> sure, everyone can say that lowering your car too much is stupid because
> you lose grip, lose cornering ability etc etc etc.
>
> what kind of rark up would i bring to this list if i said bolting on big
> turbos and cranking up boost supras was stupid because you often lose
> reliability and almost definately have poor fuel economy.
>
> It is a general rule that if you have something that you want (lowered
> suspension or a more powerful engine) you will lose some kind of good. its
> not always a win-win situation.
>
> can anybody argue that??
>
> the point is, people can do what they like to their cars but they shouldnt
> be heckled at. It is good to see people with great knowledge sharing that
> knowledge like so many of you do. but do we really need to bicker and
> laugh at one another??
>
> The amount of postings in this club which are absolute s**t is beyond me.
> it seems like every post turns into an arguement. this is what is gonna
> turn people away from this forum, and most likely the cats in here who
> know heaps about our cars.
>
> Cheers
>
> Brett
> (Wanting a pointless bulls**t free forum)
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>
Reply

re: WOF gained   2005-03-07 22:30:00 <Stu2>
If anyone wants to check stock ride height for an MA70 come take a look at mine.
Speaking of which, what options are there (along with relevant costings and inconvenience factor) for lowering ride height by the 1" recommended?

Cheers
Reply

Re: WOF gained   2005-03-07 22:37:00 <Brett>
>No one said it was stupid, just that it CAN cause less good >handling, stop over reacting.

Ok, maybe the word stupid wasnt used, but you were definately implying it was not a good move. correct?? if something is a bad move, it could be known to be stupid.

>Probably none, as people generally know and accept these problems
>with doing that.

I think you will find that everyone who has a lowered car accepts that their tyres will wear out quicker, and those who have excessively lowered their cars realise that the handling is effected. whats the difference?

>> can anybody argue that??
>No one is trying to.

your reply was the first, and it was 42 minutes after mine. you dont think anybody else has a say?

>Who is laughing?

ok, so nobody is laughing as this is text based. but how many times have we seen people pride themselves on other peoples muckups?? ive seen it plenty of times, and no i wont mention any names.

>THAT is what a list like this is FOR.
>I know, I started it.

so you think a 67 flame-grilled message reply to hunt's question about wofs was fitting for a supra forum??

i understand what you mean about opinions and agree totally, but some posts just get outa hand with worthless posts i could do without.
Reply

Re: WOF gained   2005-03-07 22:49:00 <qzm>
On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 09:26:00 -0000, Brett <brestu97@aut.ac.nz> wrote:
> >No one said it was stupid, just that it CAN cause less good >handling, stop over reacting.
>
> Ok, maybe the word stupid wasnt used, but you were definately implying it was not a good move. correct?? if something is a bad move, it could be known to be stupid.

BS, I said it lowered handling if taken to excess, but that some
people liked the looks, so did it anyway.
Both of these are acts, if you disagree with one, tell me which one,
and be ready to defend that position.

> >Probably none, as people generally know and accept these problems
> >with doing that.
> I think you will find that everyone who has a lowered car accepts that their tyres will wear out quicker, and those who have excessively lowered their cars realise that the handling is effected. whats the difference?

Because a LOT of people who lower their cars do NOT know that their
handling is compromised.
Would you like me to go back and give you a list of posts in which
people have claimed that their handling was improved by extreeme
lowerings? There is a safety factor here, people should at least be
told that they are can reduce the handling of their car.
>
> >> can anybody argue that??
> >No one is trying to.
> your reply was the first, and it was 42 minutes after mine. you dont think anybody else has a say?

I think everyone has a say, it is you who seem to want me not to state
certain facts.
If you dispute those facts, tell my why, don't keep waffling on about
side issues.

> >Who is laughing?
> ok, so nobody is laughing as this is text based. but how many times have we seen people pride themselves on other peoples muckups?? ive seen it plenty of times, and no i wont mention any names.
>
> >THAT is what a list like this is FOR.
> >I know, I started it.
> so you think a 67 flame-grilled message reply to hunt's question about wofs was fitting for a supra forum??

Yes, I do think a number of the things that were discussed have high merit.
the disagreements aer unfortunate, but the technical content is of value.

> i understand what you mean about opinions and agree totally, but some posts just get outa hand with worthless posts i could do without.

Then dont read them.
Reply

Re: WOF gained   2005-03-08 07:37:00 <krayzie010>
Please tell MR Denso that his car is too low. Also let him know that if he wants to win the JGTC he will have to raise it as he is losing valuable handling!

LOL

You guys are complete sippy longstockings...

All he wanted to know is where he could take a lowered supra for a good wheel alignment.

Reply

RE: WOF gained   2005-03-08 08:03:00 <Doig, Richard>
> Please tell MR Denso that his car is too low. Also let him know that if he
> wants to win the JGTC he will have to raise it as he is losing valuable
> handling!

If you think that car has stock suspension you have another thing coming. In
fact, I believe that you won't even find a 2JZ-GTE in it...


> All he wanted to know is where he could take a lowered supra for a good
> wheel alignment.

But he had no idea of what a good wheel alignment is. I'm sure even Hunt
will now agree that he is better educated on what to expect from an
alignment.



____________________________________________________________________
CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential
information intended only for the use of the addressee named above.
If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby
notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction
of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in
error please notify Air New Zealand immediately. Any views expressed
in this message are those of the individual sender and may not
necessarily reflect the views of Air New Zealand.
_____________________________________________________________________
For more information on the Air New Zealand Group, visit us online
at http://www.airnewzealand.com
_____________________________________________________________________
Reply

Re: WOF gained   2005-03-08 09:18:00 <Hunt M>
Stu

There is a big difference between "mongolian babble" and helpful.

The comments and information about how MKIII Supra suspension works and the
geometry is helpful and informative - however when receiving comments
telling us to "un-fu*k" our suspension are just not pretty.

If my question (and others) were - I'm going to either sack my car on its
arse or lower it 1" what would be better and why - then perhaps "negative"
comments would be ok....

Hunt

----- Original Message -----
From: "qzm" <stuartaw@gmail.com>
To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: [sconz] WOF gained


> On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 17:33:18 +1300, Hunt M <5uprah@supras.co.nz> wrote:
> > FFS Marc
> >
> > My point was - (perhaps I should slow down - or repeat myself - seems to
be
> > the best thing to do on here) - that we have lowered our Supras - we are
> > happy with the result of how they look, handle etc - we were asking
where to
> > go for an alignment - however this was replied to with typical Mongolian
> > babble.
>
> That is the difference between you and a lot of people here Hunt, most
> people would not consider an accurate description of why an
> over-lowered car (and not I never SAID yours was..) to be 'mongolian
> babble' whatever that is supposed to be.
>
> Next time you want some suggestions perhaps I should just offer none?
> perhaps you feel my descriptions of what suspension settings should
> work for you, based on many many many years of supra ownership and
> setting up, to be worthless?
>
> > Perhaps Marc instead of replying with a (seemingly to you) smart reply
you
> > could try either offering some advice or suggestions where we could take
our
> > lowered Supras to get a decent alignment done or just simply shush....
>
> Pot, meet Kettle.
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>

Reply

Re: WOF gained   2005-03-08 15:38:00 <qzm>
On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 09:18:07 +1300, Hunt M <5uprah@supras.co.nz> wrote:
> Stu
>
> There is a big difference between "mongolian babble" and helpful.
> The comments and information about how MKIII Supra suspension works and the
> geometry is helpful and informative - however when receiving comments
> telling us to "un-fu*k" our suspension are just not pretty.

Right then Hunt, please point to the exact post where I said "un-fu*k"
your suspension or shut the hell up.
Otherwise I claim that you are directly and intentionally lying about
what I said.

> If my question (and others) were - I'm going to either sack my car on its
> arse or lower it 1" what would be better and why - then perhaps "negative"
> comments would be ok....

Any comments that are correct are 'ok', and it is not for you (or
anybody) to decide, if someone points out a fact, but is wrong, then
point out why.
Reply

Re: WOF gained   2005-03-08 15:58:00 <Hunt M>
I have been actually told by people on this list (not mentioning who) to
"un-fu*k" my suspension - others (yourself included) have not used those
exact words but may as well have.

I'm not trying to attack you here Stu - don't need to get on the defensive

It just annoys me when I or anyone else asks a legitimate question such as
"where can I get a "good" warrant" and a flame war starts about having an
un-safe car.

Ok fair enough that you and anyone else doesn't want an unsafe Supra driving
around the road for obvious reasons - however we have determined with this
thread that the WOF issues that I was worried about failing are in NO WAY
unsafe and as such I didn't want some testing station to fail me on my
external (even tho they passed me before) just because I'm a young man
driving a turbo car.

Hunt

----- Original Message -----
From: "qzm" <stuartaw@gmail.com>
To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: [sconz] WOF gained


> On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 09:18:07 +1300, Hunt M <5uprah@supras.co.nz> wrote:
> > Stu
> >
> > There is a big difference between "mongolian babble" and helpful.
> > The comments and information about how MKIII Supra suspension works and
the
> > geometry is helpful and informative - however when receiving comments
> > telling us to "un-fu*k" our suspension are just not pretty.
>
> Right then Hunt, please point to the exact post where I said "un-fu*k"
> your suspension or shut the hell up.
> Otherwise I claim that you are directly and intentionally lying about
> what I said.
>
> > If my question (and others) were - I'm going to either sack my car on
its
> > arse or lower it 1" what would be better and why - then perhaps
"negative"
> > comments would be ok....
>
> Any comments that are correct are 'ok', and it is not for you (or
> anybody) to decide, if someone points out a fact, but is wrong, then
> point out why.
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>

Reply

RE: WOF gained   2005-03-08 16:26:00 <Doig, Richard>
> Ok fair enough that you and anyone else doesn't want an unsafe Supra
> driving
> around the road for obvious reasons - however we have determined with this
> thread that the WOF issues that I was worried about failing are in NO WAY
> unsafe and as such I didn't want some testing station to fail me on my
> external (even tho they passed me before) just because I'm a young man
> driving a turbo car.

Huh?

There is a potential for exhaust gases vented under the car to enter the
cabin. Fact.

Exhaust leaks are not allowed because of the risk of exhaust gases entering
the cabin, because that is unsafe. Fact.

An external wastegate would be failed because of the risk of exhaust gases
entering the cabin. Fact.

I don't see any mention there of a young person driving a turbo car. Anyone?

____________________________________________________________________
CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential
information intended only for the use of the addressee named above.
If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby
notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction
of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in
error please notify Air New Zealand immediately. Any views expressed
in this message are those of the individual sender and may not
necessarily reflect the views of Air New Zealand.
_____________________________________________________________________
For more information on the Air New Zealand Group, visit us online
at http://www.airnewzealand.com
_____________________________________________________________________
Reply

Re: WOF gained   2005-03-08 16:31:00 <Hunt M>
So your saying that a young person in a lowered turbo vehicle can go get a
warrent just as easy as a 40 year old with a 2002 holden commadore?

All factors for safety were taken into account when checking my car before
the warrent tyres, lights, bearings etc etc - one of the only issues that
concerned me - not for safety wise but in the case of the external venting
to atmosphere. I am aware of the danger of breathing in exhaust gasses -
when was the last time an external wastegate caused an accident and/or for
that reason as opposed to bald tyres, worn or broken wheel bearings, etc
etc???

Hunt

----- Original Message -----
From: "Doig, Richard" <Richard.Doig@airnz.co.nz>
To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 4:25 PM
Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained


> > Ok fair enough that you and anyone else doesn't want an unsafe Supra
> > driving
> > around the road for obvious reasons - however we have determined with
this
> > thread that the WOF issues that I was worried about failing are in NO
WAY
> > unsafe and as such I didn't want some testing station to fail me on my
> > external (even tho they passed me before) just because I'm a young man
> > driving a turbo car.
>
> Huh?
>
> There is a potential for exhaust gases vented under the car to enter the
> cabin. Fact.
>
> Exhaust leaks are not allowed because of the risk of exhaust gases
entering
> the cabin, because that is unsafe. Fact.
>
> An external wastegate would be failed because of the risk of exhaust gases
> entering the cabin. Fact.
>
> I don't see any mention there of a young person driving a turbo car.
Anyone?
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential
> information intended only for the use of the addressee named above.
> If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby
> notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction
> of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in
> error please notify Air New Zealand immediately. Any views expressed
> in this message are those of the individual sender and may not
> necessarily reflect the views of Air New Zealand.
> _____________________________________________________________________
> For more information on the Air New Zealand Group, visit us online
> at http://www.airnewzealand.com
> _____________________________________________________________________
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>

Reply

RE: WOF gained   2005-03-08 16:42:00 <Darcy Cresswell>
The chances of an accident being caused by an externally venting wastegate
emitting enough gas into the passenger cabin over a long enough period to
cause driver drowsiness and hence an accident = The chances of a sensible
and relevant discussion emerging from this flame-fest.
Fact.




Original Message Follows----
From: "Doig, Richard" <Richard.Doig@airnz.co.nz>
Reply-To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 16:25:32 +1300

> Ok fair enough that you and anyone else doesn't want an unsafe Supra
> driving
> around the road for obvious reasons - however we have determined with
this
> thread that the WOF issues that I was worried about failing are in NO WAY
> unsafe and as such I didn't want some testing station to fail me on my
> external (even tho they passed me before) just because I'm a young man
> driving a turbo car.

Huh?

There is a potential for exhaust gases vented under the car to enter the
cabin. Fact.

Exhaust leaks are not allowed because of the risk of exhaust gases entering
the cabin, because that is unsafe. Fact.

An external wastegate would be failed because of the risk of exhaust gases
entering the cabin. Fact.

I don't see any mention there of a young person driving a turbo car. Anyone?

____________________________________________________________________
CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential
information intended only for the use of the addressee named above.
If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby
notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction
of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in
error please notify Air New Zealand immediately. Any views expressed
in this message are those of the individual sender and may not
necessarily reflect the views of Air New Zealand.
_____________________________________________________________________
For more information on the Air New Zealand Group, visit us online
at http://www.airnewzealand.com
_____________________________________________________________________

---
Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz

_________________________________________________________________
Listen to music online with the Xtra Broadband Channel
http://xtra.co.nz/broadband

Reply

RE: WOF gained   2005-03-08 16:57:00 <Doig, Richard>
What flame fest? Again I'm pointing out the reason why Hunt's car may not
get a warrant is for the fact it has an externally venting wastegate,
nothing to do with his age or choice of car as he seems to think. His
statements (even after the long discussion) indicate that still does not
believe this.

Whether or not you think that no gases will enter the cabin from an external
wastegate is irrelevant unless you work for the LTSA and sets the warrant
requirements. If you are a warrant inspector and you issued a warrant with
an externally venting wastegate you could be shut down. It is an easily
interpreted rule.

I quote:
The exhaust gases are not directed away from the
perimeter of the vehicle's passenger compartment.

And:
There is a leak of exhaust gas from the exhaust
system.

Fairly clear.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: bounce-40639-27@list.supras.org.nz [mailto:bounce-40639-
> 27@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Darcy Cresswell
> Sent: Tuesday, 8 March 2005 4:42 p.m.
> To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained
>
> The chances of an accident being caused by an externally venting wastegate
> emitting enough gas into the passenger cabin over a long enough period to
> cause driver drowsiness and hence an accident = The chances of a sensible
> and relevant discussion emerging from this flame-fest.
> Fact.
>
>
>
>
> Original Message Follows----
> From: "Doig, Richard" <Richard.Doig@airnz.co.nz>
> Reply-To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained
> Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 16:25:32 +1300
>
> > Ok fair enough that you and anyone else doesn't want an unsafe Supra
> > driving
> > around the road for obvious reasons - however we have determined with
> this
> > thread that the WOF issues that I was worried about failing are in NO
> WAY
> > unsafe and as such I didn't want some testing station to fail me on my
> > external (even tho they passed me before) just because I'm a young man
> > driving a turbo car.
>
> Huh?
>
> There is a potential for exhaust gases vented under the car to enter the
> cabin. Fact.
>
> Exhaust leaks are not allowed because of the risk of exhaust gases
> entering
> the cabin, because that is unsafe. Fact.
>
> An external wastegate would be failed because of the risk of exhaust gases
> entering the cabin. Fact.
>
> I don't see any mention there of a young person driving a turbo car.
> Anyone?
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential
> information intended only for the use of the addressee named above.
> If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby
> notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction
> of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in
> error please notify Air New Zealand immediately. Any views expressed
> in this message are those of the individual sender and may not
> necessarily reflect the views of Air New Zealand.
> _____________________________________________________________________
> For more information on the Air New Zealand Group, visit us online
> at http://www.airnewzealand.com
> _____________________________________________________________________
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Listen to music online with the Xtra Broadband Channel
> http://xtra.co.nz/broadband
>
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz

____________________________________________________________________
CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential
information intended only for the use of the addressee named above.
If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby
notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction
of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in
error please notify Air New Zealand immediately. Any views expressed
in this message are those of the individual sender and may not
necessarily reflect the views of Air New Zealand.
_____________________________________________________________________
For more information on the Air New Zealand Group, visit us online
at http://www.airnewzealand.com
_____________________________________________________________________
Reply

Re: WOF gained   2005-03-08 17:10:00 <Hunt M>
This list is like a cheap train set - just goes round and round in circles.
We ALL realise what extreme amounts of exhaust gasses can do to you and the
LTSA rules about them. The point I am putting across is that there is not
enough exhaust gasses being "sucked" into the cabin when on boost with the
external to be it dangerous and this is one of those WOF regulations that
doesn't really need to be enforced as hard as it is - unless of course you
have your exhaust itself venting into the engine bay where you will have the
gasses thrown in your face all the time

Hunt

----- Original Message -----
From: "Doig, Richard" <Richard.Doig@airnz.co.nz>
To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 4:56 PM
Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained


> What flame fest? Again I'm pointing out the reason why Hunt's car may not
> get a warrant is for the fact it has an externally venting wastegate,
> nothing to do with his age or choice of car as he seems to think. His
> statements (even after the long discussion) indicate that still does not
> believe this.
>
> Whether or not you think that no gases will enter the cabin from an
external
> wastegate is irrelevant unless you work for the LTSA and sets the warrant
> requirements. If you are a warrant inspector and you issued a warrant with
> an externally venting wastegate you could be shut down. It is an easily
> interpreted rule.
>
> I quote:
> The exhaust gases are not directed away from the
> perimeter of the vehicle's passenger compartment.
>
> And:
> There is a leak of exhaust gas from the exhaust
> system.
>
> Fairly clear.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bounce-40639-27@list.supras.org.nz [mailto:bounce-40639-
> > 27@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Darcy Cresswell
> > Sent: Tuesday, 8 March 2005 4:42 p.m.
> > To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained
> >
> > The chances of an accident being caused by an externally venting
wastegate
> > emitting enough gas into the passenger cabin over a long enough period
to
> > cause driver drowsiness and hence an accident = The chances of a
sensible
> > and relevant discussion emerging from this flame-fest.
> > Fact.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Original Message Follows----
> > From: "Doig, Richard" <Richard.Doig@airnz.co.nz>
> > Reply-To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> > To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> > Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained
> > Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 16:25:32 +1300
> >
> > > Ok fair enough that you and anyone else doesn't want an unsafe Supra
> > > driving
> > > around the road for obvious reasons - however we have determined with
> > this
> > > thread that the WOF issues that I was worried about failing are in NO
> > WAY
> > > unsafe and as such I didn't want some testing station to fail me on
my
> > > external (even tho they passed me before) just because I'm a young
man
> > > driving a turbo car.
> >
> > Huh?
> >
> > There is a potential for exhaust gases vented under the car to enter the
> > cabin. Fact.
> >
> > Exhaust leaks are not allowed because of the risk of exhaust gases
> > entering
> > the cabin, because that is unsafe. Fact.
> >
> > An external wastegate would be failed because of the risk of exhaust
gases
> > entering the cabin. Fact.
> >
> > I don't see any mention there of a young person driving a turbo car.
> > Anyone?
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________________
> > CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential
> > information intended only for the use of the addressee named above.
> > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby
> > notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction
> > of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in
> > error please notify Air New Zealand immediately. Any views expressed
> > in this message are those of the individual sender and may not
> > necessarily reflect the views of Air New Zealand.
> > _____________________________________________________________________
> > For more information on the Air New Zealand Group, visit us online
> > at http://www.airnewzealand.com
> > _____________________________________________________________________
> >
> > ---
> > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> > Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
http://www.turbo.co.nz
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Listen to music online with the Xtra Broadband Channel
> > http://xtra.co.nz/broadband
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> > Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
http://www.turbo.co.nz
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential
> information intended only for the use of the addressee named above.
> If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby
> notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction
> of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in
> error please notify Air New Zealand immediately. Any views expressed
> in this message are those of the individual sender and may not
> necessarily reflect the views of Air New Zealand.
> _____________________________________________________________________
> For more information on the Air New Zealand Group, visit us online
> at http://www.airnewzealand.com
> _____________________________________________________________________
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>

Reply

RE: WOF gained   2005-03-08 17:13:00 <Cully Paterson>

Hunt: Carbon Monoxide serious toxicity levels begin at 800 parts per
million. 0.08% of breathable air. Think about it.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hunt M [mailto:5uprah@supras.co.nz]
> Sent: Tuesday, 8 March 2005 5:10 p.m.
> To: SCONZ.list Forward
> Subject: Re: [sconz] WOF gained
>
> This list is like a cheap train set - just goes round and
> round in circles.
> We ALL realise what extreme amounts of exhaust gasses can do
> to you and the LTSA rules about them. The point I am putting
> across is that there is not enough exhaust gasses being
> "sucked" into the cabin when on boost with the external to be
> it dangerous and this is one of those WOF regulations that
> doesn't really need to be enforced as hard as it is - unless
> of course you have your exhaust itself venting into the
> engine bay where you will have the gasses thrown in your face
> all the time
>
> Hunt
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Doig, Richard" <Richard.Doig@airnz.co.nz>
> To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 4:56 PM
> Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained
>
>
> > What flame fest? Again I'm pointing out the reason why
> Hunt's car may
> > not get a warrant is for the fact it has an externally venting
> > wastegate, nothing to do with his age or choice of car as
> he seems to
> > think. His statements (even after the long discussion)
> indicate that
> > still does not believe this.
> >
> > Whether or not you think that no gases will enter the cabin from an
> external
> > wastegate is irrelevant unless you work for the LTSA and sets the
> > warrant requirements. If you are a warrant inspector and
> you issued a
> > warrant with an externally venting wastegate you could be
> shut down.
> > It is an easily interpreted rule.
> >
> > I quote:
> > The exhaust gases are not directed away from the perimeter of the
> > vehicle's passenger compartment.
> >
> > And:
> > There is a leak of exhaust gas from the exhaust system.
> >
> > Fairly clear.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: bounce-40639-27@list.supras.org.nz [mailto:bounce-40639-
> > > 27@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Darcy Cresswell
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 8 March 2005 4:42 p.m.
> > > To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
> > > Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained
> > >
> > > The chances of an accident being caused by an externally venting
> wastegate
> > > emitting enough gas into the passenger cabin over a long enough
> > > period
> to
> > > cause driver drowsiness and hence an accident = The chances of a
> sensible
> > > and relevant discussion emerging from this flame-fest.
> > > Fact.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Original Message Follows----
> > > From: "Doig, Richard" <Richard.Doig@airnz.co.nz>
> > > Reply-To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List"
> <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> > > To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> > > Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained
> > > Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 16:25:32 +1300
> > >
> > > > Ok fair enough that you and anyone else doesn't want an unsafe
> > > Supra > driving > around the road for obvious reasons -
> however we
> > > have determined with this > thread that the WOF issues
> that I was
> > > worried about failing are in NO WAY > unsafe and as such
> I didn't
> > > want some testing station to fail me on
> my
> > > > external (even tho they passed me before) just because I'm a
> > > young
> man
> > > > driving a turbo car.
> > >
> > > Huh?
> > >
> > > There is a potential for exhaust gases vented under the
> car to enter
> > > the cabin. Fact.
> > >
> > > Exhaust leaks are not allowed because of the risk of
> exhaust gases
> > > entering the cabin, because that is unsafe. Fact.
> > >
> > > An external wastegate would be failed because of the risk
> of exhaust
> gases
> > > entering the cabin. Fact.
> > >
> > > I don't see any mention there of a young person driving a
> turbo car.
> > > Anyone?
> > >
> > >
> ____________________________________________________________________
> > > CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential
> > > information intended only for the use of the addressee
> named above.
> > > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you
> are hereby
> > > notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or
> reproduction
> > > of this message is prohibited. If you have received this
> message in
> > > error please notify Air New Zealand immediately. Any
> views expressed
> > > in this message are those of the individual sender and may not
> > > necessarily reflect the views of Air New Zealand.
> > >
> ____________________________________________________________________
> > > _ For more information on the Air New Zealand Group,
> visit us online
> > > at http://www.airnewzealand.com
> > >
> ____________________________________________________________________
> > > _
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> > > sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> http://www.turbo.co.nz
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Listen to music online with the Xtra Broadband Channel
> > > http://xtra.co.nz/broadband
> > >
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> > > sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> http://www.turbo.co.nz
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________________
> > CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential
> > information intended only for the use of the addressee named above.
> > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you
> are hereby
> > notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or
> reproduction of
> > this message is prohibited. If you have received this
> message in error
> > please notify Air New Zealand immediately. Any views
> expressed in this
> > message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily
> > reflect the views of Air New Zealand.
> >
> _____________________________________________________________________
> > For more information on the Air New Zealand Group, visit us
> online at
> > http://www.airnewzealand.com
> >
> _____________________________________________________________________
> >
> > ---
> > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> > sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
> >
>
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>
Reply

Re: WOF gained   2005-03-08 17:15:00 <Hunt M>
Cully - how many people drag race and crash at the end because of this?

Think about it

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cully Paterson" <Cully@supras.org.nz>
To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 5:12 PM
Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained



Hunt: Carbon Monoxide serious toxicity levels begin at 800 parts per
million. 0.08% of breathable air. Think about it.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hunt M [mailto:5uprah@supras.co.nz]
> Sent: Tuesday, 8 March 2005 5:10 p.m.
> To: SCONZ.list Forward
> Subject: Re: [sconz] WOF gained
>
> This list is like a cheap train set - just goes round and
> round in circles.
> We ALL realise what extreme amounts of exhaust gasses can do
> to you and the LTSA rules about them. The point I am putting
> across is that there is not enough exhaust gasses being
> "sucked" into the cabin when on boost with the external to be
> it dangerous and this is one of those WOF regulations that
> doesn't really need to be enforced as hard as it is - unless
> of course you have your exhaust itself venting into the
> engine bay where you will have the gasses thrown in your face
> all the time
>
> Hunt
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Doig, Richard" <Richard.Doig@airnz.co.nz>
> To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 4:56 PM
> Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained
>
>
> > What flame fest? Again I'm pointing out the reason why
> Hunt's car may
> > not get a warrant is for the fact it has an externally venting
> > wastegate, nothing to do with his age or choice of car as
> he seems to
> > think. His statements (even after the long discussion)
> indicate that
> > still does not believe this.
> >
> > Whether or not you think that no gases will enter the cabin from an
> external
> > wastegate is irrelevant unless you work for the LTSA and sets the
> > warrant requirements. If you are a warrant inspector and
> you issued a
> > warrant with an externally venting wastegate you could be
> shut down.
> > It is an easily interpreted rule.
> >
> > I quote:
> > The exhaust gases are not directed away from the perimeter of the
> > vehicle's passenger compartment.
> >
> > And:
> > There is a leak of exhaust gas from the exhaust system.
> >
> > Fairly clear.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: bounce-40639-27@list.supras.org.nz [mailto:bounce-40639-
> > > 27@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Darcy Cresswell
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 8 March 2005 4:42 p.m.
> > > To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
> > > Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained
> > >
> > > The chances of an accident being caused by an externally venting
> wastegate
> > > emitting enough gas into the passenger cabin over a long enough
> > > period
> to
> > > cause driver drowsiness and hence an accident = The chances of a
> sensible
> > > and relevant discussion emerging from this flame-fest.
> > > Fact.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Original Message Follows----
> > > From: "Doig, Richard" <Richard.Doig@airnz.co.nz>
> > > Reply-To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List"
> <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> > > To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> > > Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained
> > > Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 16:25:32 +1300
> > >
> > > > Ok fair enough that you and anyone else doesn't want an unsafe
> > > Supra > driving > around the road for obvious reasons -
> however we
> > > have determined with this > thread that the WOF issues
> that I was
> > > worried about failing are in NO WAY > unsafe and as such
> I didn't
> > > want some testing station to fail me on
> my
> > > > external (even tho they passed me before) just because I'm a
> > > young
> man
> > > > driving a turbo car.
> > >
> > > Huh?
> > >
> > > There is a potential for exhaust gases vented under the
> car to enter
> > > the cabin. Fact.
> > >
> > > Exhaust leaks are not allowed because of the risk of
> exhaust gases
> > > entering the cabin, because that is unsafe. Fact.
> > >
> > > An external wastegate would be failed because of the risk
> of exhaust
> gases
> > > entering the cabin. Fact.
> > >
> > > I don't see any mention there of a young person driving a
> turbo car.
> > > Anyone?
> > >
> > >
> ____________________________________________________________________
> > > CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential
> > > information intended only for the use of the addressee
> named above.
> > > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you
> are hereby
> > > notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or
> reproduction
> > > of this message is prohibited. If you have received this
> message in
> > > error please notify Air New Zealand immediately. Any
> views expressed
> > > in this message are those of the individual sender and may not
> > > necessarily reflect the views of Air New Zealand.
> > >
> ____________________________________________________________________
> > > _ For more information on the Air New Zealand Group,
> visit us online
> > > at http://www.airnewzealand.com
> > >
> ____________________________________________________________________
> > > _
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> > > sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> http://www.turbo.co.nz
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Listen to music online with the Xtra Broadband Channel
> > > http://xtra.co.nz/broadband
> > >
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> > > sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> http://www.turbo.co.nz
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________________
> > CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential
> > information intended only for the use of the addressee named above.
> > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you
> are hereby
> > notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or
> reproduction of
> > this message is prohibited. If you have received this
> message in error
> > please notify Air New Zealand immediately. Any views
> expressed in this
> > message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily
> > reflect the views of Air New Zealand.
> >
> _____________________________________________________________________
> > For more information on the Air New Zealand Group, visit us
> online at
> > http://www.airnewzealand.com
> >
> _____________________________________________________________________
> >
> > ---
> > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> > sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
> >
>
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>

---
Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz


Reply

RE: WOF gained   2005-03-08 17:30:00 <Cully Paterson>
If you'd bother to research before opening your mouth you'd have noticed
that it's a genuine concern for Motorsport:

http://www.delawareonline.com/newsjournal/sports/2003/05/29quietdanger.h
tml

You'd also have seen the profusion of helmets becoming available to
filter out CO emissions for racing.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hunt M [mailto:5uprah@supras.co.nz]
> Sent: Tuesday, 8 March 2005 5:15 p.m.
> To: SCONZ.list Forward
> Subject: Re: [sconz] WOF gained
>
> Cully - how many people drag race and crash at the end
> because of this?
>
> Think about it
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cully Paterson" <Cully@supras.org.nz>
> To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 5:12 PM
> Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained
>
>
>
> Hunt: Carbon Monoxide serious toxicity levels begin at 800 parts per
> million. 0.08% of breathable air. Think about it.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Hunt M [mailto:5uprah@supras.co.nz]
> > Sent: Tuesday, 8 March 2005 5:10 p.m.
> > To: SCONZ.list Forward
> > Subject: Re: [sconz] WOF gained
> >
> > This list is like a cheap train set - just goes round and
> > round in circles.
> > We ALL realise what extreme amounts of exhaust gasses can do
> > to you and the LTSA rules about them. The point I am putting
> > across is that there is not enough exhaust gasses being
> > "sucked" into the cabin when on boost with the external to be
> > it dangerous and this is one of those WOF regulations that
> > doesn't really need to be enforced as hard as it is - unless
> > of course you have your exhaust itself venting into the
> > engine bay where you will have the gasses thrown in your face
> > all the time
> >
> > Hunt
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Doig, Richard" <Richard.Doig@airnz.co.nz>
> > To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 4:56 PM
> > Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained
> >
> >
> > > What flame fest? Again I'm pointing out the reason why
> > Hunt's car may
> > > not get a warrant is for the fact it has an externally venting
> > > wastegate, nothing to do with his age or choice of car as
> > he seems to
> > > think. His statements (even after the long discussion)
> > indicate that
> > > still does not believe this.
> > >
> > > Whether or not you think that no gases will enter the
> cabin from an
> > external
> > > wastegate is irrelevant unless you work for the LTSA and sets the
> > > warrant requirements. If you are a warrant inspector and
> > you issued a
> > > warrant with an externally venting wastegate you could be
> > shut down.
> > > It is an easily interpreted rule.
> > >
> > > I quote:
> > > The exhaust gases are not directed away from the perimeter of the
> > > vehicle's passenger compartment.
> > >
> > > And:
> > > There is a leak of exhaust gas from the exhaust system.
> > >
> > > Fairly clear.
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: bounce-40639-27@list.supras.org.nz [mailto:bounce-40639-
> > > > 27@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Darcy Cresswell
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 8 March 2005 4:42 p.m.
> > > > To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
> > > > Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained
> > > >
> > > > The chances of an accident being caused by an externally venting
> > wastegate
> > > > emitting enough gas into the passenger cabin over a long enough
> > > > period
> > to
> > > > cause driver drowsiness and hence an accident = The chances of a
> > sensible
> > > > and relevant discussion emerging from this flame-fest.
> > > > Fact.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Original Message Follows----
> > > > From: "Doig, Richard" <Richard.Doig@airnz.co.nz>
> > > > Reply-To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List"
> > <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> > > > To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> > > > Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained
> > > > Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 16:25:32 +1300
> > > >
> > > > > Ok fair enough that you and anyone else doesn't want
> an unsafe
> > > > Supra > driving > around the road for obvious reasons -
> > however we
> > > > have determined with this > thread that the WOF issues
> > that I was
> > > > worried about failing are in NO WAY > unsafe and as such
> > I didn't
> > > > want some testing station to fail me on
> > my
> > > > > external (even tho they passed me before) just because I'm a
> > > > young
> > man
> > > > > driving a turbo car.
> > > >
> > > > Huh?
> > > >
> > > > There is a potential for exhaust gases vented under the
> > car to enter
> > > > the cabin. Fact.
> > > >
> > > > Exhaust leaks are not allowed because of the risk of
> > exhaust gases
> > > > entering the cabin, because that is unsafe. Fact.
> > > >
> > > > An external wastegate would be failed because of the risk
> > of exhaust
> > gases
> > > > entering the cabin. Fact.
> > > >
> > > > I don't see any mention there of a young person driving a
> > turbo car.
> > > > Anyone?
> > > >
> > > >
> > ____________________________________________________________________
> > > > CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential
> > > > information intended only for the use of the addressee
> > named above.
> > > > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you
> > are hereby
> > > > notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or
> > reproduction
> > > > of this message is prohibited. If you have received this
> > message in
> > > > error please notify Air New Zealand immediately. Any
> > views expressed
> > > > in this message are those of the individual sender and may not
> > > > necessarily reflect the views of Air New Zealand.
> > > >
> > ____________________________________________________________________
> > > > _ For more information on the Air New Zealand Group,
> > visit us online
> > > > at http://www.airnewzealand.com
> > > >
> > ____________________________________________________________________
> > > > _
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> > > > sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> > http://www.turbo.co.nz
> > > >
> > > >
> _________________________________________________________________
> > > > Listen to music online with the Xtra Broadband Channel
> > > > http://xtra.co.nz/broadband
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> > > > sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> > http://www.turbo.co.nz
> > >
> > >
> ____________________________________________________________________
> > > CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential
> > > information intended only for the use of the addressee
> named above.
> > > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you
> > are hereby
> > > notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or
> > reproduction of
> > > this message is prohibited. If you have received this
> > message in error
> > > please notify Air New Zealand immediately. Any views
> > expressed in this
> > > message are those of the individual sender and may not
> necessarily
> > > reflect the views of Air New Zealand.
> > >
> >
> _____________________________________________________________________
> > > For more information on the Air New Zealand Group, visit us
> > online at
> > > http://www.airnewzealand.com
> > >
> >
> _____________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> > > sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> > sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
> >
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> http://www.turbo.co.nz
>
>
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> http://www.turbo.co.nz
>
Reply

Re: WOF gained   2005-03-08 17:50:00 <Hunt M>
Surely my little 1G 2 litre doesn't put out as much exhaust gas as a NASCAR
who's exhaust vent just infront of the rear wheel making a very real option
for all those extra gases to get sucked into the cabin......

The fact of the matter is - exhaust gases kill - dont put your exhaust into
your heater inlet

Car's kill - dont drive them

Hunt

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cully Paterson" <Cully@supras.org.nz>
To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 5:29 PM
Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained


If you'd bother to research before opening your mouth you'd have noticed
that it's a genuine concern for Motorsport:

http://www.delawareonline.com/newsjournal/sports/2003/05/29quietdanger.h
tml

You'd also have seen the profusion of helmets becoming available to
filter out CO emissions for racing.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hunt M [mailto:5uprah@supras.co.nz]
> Sent: Tuesday, 8 March 2005 5:15 p.m.
> To: SCONZ.list Forward
> Subject: Re: [sconz] WOF gained
>
> Cully - how many people drag race and crash at the end
> because of this?
>
> Think about it
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cully Paterson" <Cully@supras.org.nz>
> To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 5:12 PM
> Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained
>
>
>
> Hunt: Carbon Monoxide serious toxicity levels begin at 800 parts per
> million. 0.08% of breathable air. Think about it.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Hunt M [mailto:5uprah@supras.co.nz]
> > Sent: Tuesday, 8 March 2005 5:10 p.m.
> > To: SCONZ.list Forward
> > Subject: Re: [sconz] WOF gained
> >
> > This list is like a cheap train set - just goes round and
> > round in circles.
> > We ALL realise what extreme amounts of exhaust gasses can do
> > to you and the LTSA rules about them. The point I am putting
> > across is that there is not enough exhaust gasses being
> > "sucked" into the cabin when on boost with the external to be
> > it dangerous and this is one of those WOF regulations that
> > doesn't really need to be enforced as hard as it is - unless
> > of course you have your exhaust itself venting into the
> > engine bay where you will have the gasses thrown in your face
> > all the time
> >
> > Hunt
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Doig, Richard" <Richard.Doig@airnz.co.nz>
> > To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 4:56 PM
> > Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained
> >
> >
> > > What flame fest? Again I'm pointing out the reason why
> > Hunt's car may
> > > not get a warrant is for the fact it has an externally venting
> > > wastegate, nothing to do with his age or choice of car as
> > he seems to
> > > think. His statements (even after the long discussion)
> > indicate that
> > > still does not believe this.
> > >
> > > Whether or not you think that no gases will enter the
> cabin from an
> > external
> > > wastegate is irrelevant unless you work for the LTSA and sets the
> > > warrant requirements. If you are a warrant inspector and
> > you issued a
> > > warrant with an externally venting wastegate you could be
> > shut down.
> > > It is an easily interpreted rule.
> > >
> > > I quote:
> > > The exhaust gases are not directed away from the perimeter of the
> > > vehicle's passenger compartment.
> > >
> > > And:
> > > There is a leak of exhaust gas from the exhaust system.
> > >
> > > Fairly clear.
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: bounce-40639-27@list.supras.org.nz [mailto:bounce-40639-
> > > > 27@list.supras.org.nz] On Behalf Of Darcy Cresswell
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 8 March 2005 4:42 p.m.
> > > > To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List
> > > > Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained
> > > >
> > > > The chances of an accident being caused by an externally venting
> > wastegate
> > > > emitting enough gas into the passenger cabin over a long enough
> > > > period
> > to
> > > > cause driver drowsiness and hence an accident = The chances of a
> > sensible
> > > > and relevant discussion emerging from this flame-fest.
> > > > Fact.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Original Message Follows----
> > > > From: "Doig, Richard" <Richard.Doig@airnz.co.nz>
> > > > Reply-To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List"
> > <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> > > > To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> > > > Subject: RE: [sconz] WOF gained
> > > > Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 16:25:32 +1300
> > > >
> > > > > Ok fair enough that you and anyone else doesn't want
> an unsafe
> > > > Supra > driving > around the road for obvious reasons -
> > however we
> > > > have determined with this > thread that the WOF issues
> > that I was
> > > > worried about failing are in NO WAY > unsafe and as such
> > I didn't
> > > > want some testing station to fail me on
> > my
> > > > > external (even tho they passed me before) just because I'm a
> > > > young
> > man
> > > > > driving a turbo car.
> > > >
> > > > Huh?
> > > >
> > > > There is a potential for exhaust gases vented under the
> > car to enter
> > > > the cabin. Fact.
> > > >
> > > > Exhaust leaks are not allowed because of the risk of
> > exhaust gases
> > > > entering the cabin, because that is unsafe. Fact.
> > > >
> > > > An external wastegate would be failed because of the risk
> > of exhaust
> > gases
> > > > entering the cabin. Fact.
> > > >
> > > > I don't see any mention there of a young person driving a
> > turbo car.
> > > > Anyone?
> > > >
> > > >
> > ____________________________________________________________________
> > > > CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential
> > > > information intended only for the use of the addressee
> > named above.
> > > > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you
> > are hereby
> > > > notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or
> > reproduction
> > > > of this message is prohibited. If you have received this
> > message in
> > > > error please notify Air New Zealand immediately. Any
> > views expressed
> > > > in this message are those of the individual sender and may not
> > > > necessarily reflect the views of Air New Zealand.
> > > >
> > ____________________________________________________________________
> > > > _ For more information on the Air New Zealand Group,
> > visit us online
> > > > at http://www.airnewzealand.com
> > > >
> > ____________________________________________________________________
> > > > _
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> > > > sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> > http://www.turbo.co.nz
> > > >
> > > >
> _________________________________________________________________
> > > > Listen to music online with the Xtra Broadband Channel
> > > > http://xtra.co.nz/broadband
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> > > > sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> > http://www.turbo.co.nz
> > >
> > >
> ____________________________________________________________________
> > > CAUTION - This message may contain privileged and confidential
> > > information intended only for the use of the addressee
> named above.
> > > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you
> > are hereby
> > > notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or
> > reproduction of
> > > this message is prohibited. If you have received this
> > message in error
> > > please notify Air New Zealand immediately. Any views
> > expressed in this
> > > message are those of the individual sender and may not
> necessarily
> > > reflect the views of Air New Zealand.
> > >
> >
> _____________________________________________________________________
> > > For more information on the Air New Zealand Group, visit us
> > online at
> > > http://www.airnewzealand.com
> > >
> >
> _____________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> > > sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> > sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
> >
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> http://www.turbo.co.nz
>
>
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> http://www.turbo.co.nz
>

---
Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz


Reply

Re: WOF gained   2005-03-09 09:06:00 <Marc Archbold>


Hunt have you measured CO levels accurately over a period of time to determine
this or is it an assumption?

Recall the old adage about assumption....

I couldnt disagree more with you regarding "one of those WOF regulations that
doesn't really need to be enforced as hard as it is" - do you have any idea how
this sounds?

Cheers,
Marc



> This list is like a cheap train set - just goes round and round in
> circles.
> We ALL realise what extreme amounts of exhaust gasses can do to you and
> the
> LTSA rules about them. The point I am putting across is that there is
> not
> enough exhaust gasses being "sucked" into the cabin when on boost with
> the
> external to be it dangerous and this is one of those WOF regulations
> that
> doesn't really need to be enforced as hard as it is - unless of course
> you
> have your exhaust itself venting into the engine bay where you will have
> the
> gasses thrown in your face all the time
>
> Hunt

Reply

Re: WOF gained   2005-03-09 09:29:00 <Hunt M>
No I haven't measured the levels at all - let alone accurately - have you?

I'm not assuming anything - I'd like you - or anyone on here as this is not
intended to be aimed at anyone in particular - to find out about anyone who
having an external wastegate venting to below and behind the engine who's
actually come to harm due to the gases that have been sucked into the cabin.

Fact is - as far as I'm aware - this has not caused anyone harm.
If you can prove me wrong - well - I guess I'm wrong....

In regards to "one of those WOF regulations that doesn't really need to be
enforced as hard as it is" - e.g. - exhaust's being to loud for cars - yet
buses and motorbikes can get away with some extremely loud exhausts.

Hunt

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc Archbold" <marc.a@paradise.net.nz>
To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: [sconz] WOF gained


>
>
> Hunt have you measured CO levels accurately over a period of time to
determine
> this or is it an assumption?
>
> Recall the old adage about assumption....
>
> I couldnt disagree more with you regarding "one of those WOF regulations
that
> doesn't really need to be enforced as hard as it is" - do you have any
idea how
> this sounds?
>
> Cheers,
> Marc
>
>
>
> > This list is like a cheap train set - just goes round and round in
> > circles.
> > We ALL realise what extreme amounts of exhaust gasses can do to you and
> > the
> > LTSA rules about them. The point I am putting across is that there is
> > not
> > enough exhaust gasses being "sucked" into the cabin when on boost with
> > the
> > external to be it dangerous and this is one of those WOF regulations
> > that
> > doesn't really need to be enforced as hard as it is - unless of course
> > you
> > have your exhaust itself venting into the engine bay where you will have
> > the
> > gasses thrown in your face all the time
> >
> > Hunt
>
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>

Reply

Re: WOF gained   2005-03-09 10:36:00 <Marc Archbold>
> No I haven't measured the levels at all - let alone accurately - have
> you?

So what you're saying here is you're assuming. The reality is that I wouldnt
take the risk. On the other hand, you're quite aware of the risk, but choose
to ignore it. That's your prerogative, but it is foolish.

> I'm not assuming anything - I'd like you - or anyone on here as this is
> not

But you dont actually know, rather you make the *assumption*. Comprehension?


> intended to be aimed at anyone in particular - to find out about anyone
> who
> having an external wastegate venting to below and behind the engine
> who's
> actually come to harm due to the gases that have been sucked into the
> cabin.
>
> Fact is - as far as I'm aware - this has not caused anyone harm.
> If you can prove me wrong - well - I guess I'm wrong....

Congratulations on nominating yourself guinea pig. You honestly have *no* idea
how your writings appear.

>
> In regards to "one of those WOF regulations that doesn't really need to
> be
> enforced as hard as it is" - e.g. - exhaust's being to loud for cars -
> yet
> buses and motorbikes can get away with some extremely loud exhausts.


No, the issue was exhaust gasses/leaks and WOF requirements, not exhaust sound
pressure levels you appear fixated on.

The problem is Hunt, you ask questions and then ignore sound advice. There are
guys on this list that are incredibly knowledgeable and willing to help. You
have access to this knowledge. Now reverse roles, how would you feel?

Regards,
Marc

> Hunt
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marc Archbold" <marc.a@paradise.net.nz>
> To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 9:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [sconz] WOF gained
>
>
> >
> >
> > Hunt have you measured CO levels accurately over a period of time to
> determine
> > this or is it an assumption?
> >
> > Recall the old adage about assumption....
> >
> > I couldnt disagree more with you regarding "one of those WOF
> regulations
> that
> > doesn't really need to be enforced as hard as it is" - do you have
> any
> idea how
> > this sounds?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Marc
> >
> >
> >
> > > This list is like a cheap train set - just goes round and round in
> > > circles.
> > > We ALL realise what extreme amounts of exhaust gasses can do to you
> and
> > > the
> > > LTSA rules about them. The point I am putting across is that there
> is
> > > not
> > > enough exhaust gasses being "sucked" into the cabin when on boost
> with
> > > the
> > > external to be it dangerous and this is one of those WOF
> regulations
> > > that
> > > doesn't really need to be enforced as hard as it is - unless of
> course
> > > you
> > > have your exhaust itself venting into the engine bay where you will
> have
> > > the
> > > gasses thrown in your face all the time
> > >
> > > Hunt
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> > Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> http://www.turbo.co.nz
> >
>
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> http://www.turbo.co.nz
>

Reply

Re: WOF gained   2005-03-09 11:10:00 <Hunt M>
Ok you are not actually listening here

First - I was using the loudness of an exhaust (NOT the external venting
topic we are on now) as an example of a not very well enforced WOF
regulation. People with 2.5inch actual exhausts are failing at 95db yet
120db Harleys are going through no problem.

The fact that my external is venting to the atmosphere MAY very well put
dangerous gases into the cabin that COULD harm me - however I have not ever
heard of this happening to someone who's got an externally venting wastegate
in a daily driven STREET car. I understand the risks involved - although
very small - yet I still do it - I wouldn't call that stupid - Marc, do you
drive at all? That's a very dangerous thing to do - people die almost every
day driving - does that stop you? Does it make you stupid because you do?
The fact of the matter is that driving and crashing is a rare occurrence -
as is having the external venting to atmosphere and dieing or coming to harm
due to asphyxiation.

There ARE dangers involved - however no-one has experience them yet (in a
daily driven street car) - unless you can prove me otherwise.

Hunt


----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc Archbold" <marc.a@paradise.net.nz>
To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: [sconz] WOF gained


> > No I haven't measured the levels at all - let alone accurately - have
> > you?
>
> So what you're saying here is you're assuming. The reality is that I
wouldnt
> take the risk. On the other hand, you're quite aware of the risk, but
choose
> to ignore it. That's your prerogative, but it is foolish.
>
> > I'm not assuming anything - I'd like you - or anyone on here as this is
> > not
>
> But you dont actually know, rather you make the *assumption*.
Comprehension?
>
>
> > intended to be aimed at anyone in particular - to find out about anyone
> > who
> > having an external wastegate venting to below and behind the engine
> > who's
> > actually come to harm due to the gases that have been sucked into the
> > cabin.
> >
> > Fact is - as far as I'm aware - this has not caused anyone harm.
> > If you can prove me wrong - well - I guess I'm wrong....
>
> Congratulations on nominating yourself guinea pig. You honestly have *no*
idea
> how your writings appear.
>
> >
> > In regards to "one of those WOF regulations that doesn't really need to
> > be
> > enforced as hard as it is" - e.g. - exhaust's being to loud for cars -
> > yet
> > buses and motorbikes can get away with some extremely loud exhausts.
>
>
> No, the issue was exhaust gasses/leaks and WOF requirements, not exhaust
sound
> pressure levels you appear fixated on.
>
> The problem is Hunt, you ask questions and then ignore sound advice.
There are
> guys on this list that are incredibly knowledgeable and willing to help.
You
> have access to this knowledge. Now reverse roles, how would you feel?
>
> Regards,
> Marc
>
> > Hunt
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Marc Archbold" <marc.a@paradise.net.nz>
> > To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 9:06 AM
> > Subject: Re: [sconz] WOF gained
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hunt have you measured CO levels accurately over a period of time to
> > determine
> > > this or is it an assumption?
> > >
> > > Recall the old adage about assumption....
> > >
> > > I couldnt disagree more with you regarding "one of those WOF
> > regulations
> > that
> > > doesn't really need to be enforced as hard as it is" - do you have
> > any
> > idea how
> > > this sounds?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Marc
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > This list is like a cheap train set - just goes round and round in
> > > > circles.
> > > > We ALL realise what extreme amounts of exhaust gasses can do to you
> > and
> > > > the
> > > > LTSA rules about them. The point I am putting across is that there
> > is
> > > > not
> > > > enough exhaust gasses being "sucked" into the cabin when on boost
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > external to be it dangerous and this is one of those WOF
> > regulations
> > > > that
> > > > doesn't really need to be enforced as hard as it is - unless of
> > course
> > > > you
> > > > have your exhaust itself venting into the engine bay where you will
> > have
> > > > the
> > > > gasses thrown in your face all the time
> > > >
> > > > Hunt
> > >
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> > > Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> > http://www.turbo.co.nz
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> > Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> > http://www.turbo.co.nz
> >
>
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>

Reply























































Lyris - Email Marketing Software