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mk2 new owner =) need some info...   2007-02-13 00:04:00 <mark>
hi all
am proud to say i now own an ma61 p-type. bought it off kayne from pukekohe which im sure some of you already know.

Doing some maintenance on it for a start heh
smells like it running hell rich.. is this normal for a 5mge? got cracked exhaust manif tho. have pulled plugs, compression tested, checked timing, checked tps. about to test injectors for leakage before cracking open afm to lean out a notch or two.

also the electric aerial is a solid lump of rust haha. used to make a buzzing noise when car started and found it to be the relay in the control box going nato... which brings me to the next question.. is there a common/simple replacement? dare i ask toyota what a new one would set me back lol
cheers
-mark
Reply

RE: mk2 new owner =) need some info...   2007-02-13 09:25:00 <Linton, David>
Hi Mark, David here....

Some of the 5Ms did run rich; just ask Matt Adair. I don't know what
caused it but I know on mine I tended to get around 450 - 500 kms on one
tank of gas. You coould try moving the AFM spring and see how it goes.

I may have a spare manifold you can have - I'll check tonight.....

As for the electric aerials, there was talk on celicasupra.com that
Toyota wanted around US$100 for it. I pulled mine out as it started to
rust as well and have just fitted a manual aerial. Other electric
aerials should fit; it's just a matter of getting the wiring right and
keeping the fittings from the OEM aerial. When I was at SuperCheap (sp
?), they had a generic electric aerial for about $80.

David

-----Original Message-----
From: mark
Subject: [sconz] mk2 new owner =) need some info...

hi all
am proud to say i now own an ma61 p-type. bought it off kayne from
pukekohe which im sure some of you already know.

Doing some maintenance on it for a start heh
smells like it running hell rich.. is this normal for a 5mge? got
cracked exhaust manif tho. have pulled plugs, compression tested,
checked timing, checked tps. about to test injectors for leakage before
cracking open afm to lean out a notch or two.

also the electric aerial is a solid lump of rust haha. used to make a
buzzing noise when car started and found it to be the relay in the
control box going nato... which brings me to the next question.. is
there a common/simple replacement? dare i ask toyota what a new one
would set me back lol
cheers
-mark



Reply

re: mk2 new owner =) need some info...   2007-02-14 17:31:00 <John Bouttell>
Hi Mark

Before you start fiddling with the AFM settings, check the state of your O-2 sensor. Beyond 100,000km or so they can start to get past their prime in terms of giving out quality signal in response to the perceived state of mixture from the exhaust gases. The ECU uses this signal to constantly trim the fuel mixture for optimum performance,economy and emissions processing by the downstream catalytic converter.

A faulty O-2 sensor can cause exactly what you describe.
I have some (photocopied) NGK/NTK tech ref on O-2 sensors, the two different types & how they work, and how to test them for proper function. Contact me off-list if you want me to scan & email it to you. Alternatively it may be useful to make it available to all via the Tech Info Section of the web site. LMK Cully?

If your's is a single wire sensor, then NTK make a universal sensor with crimping/sealing joiner which requires you to cut the lead & connector from the OEM sensor for joining on to the universal one. Costs around $100 instead of $300 for OEM replacement.

HTH
John
Reply

RE: mk2 new owner =) need some info...   2007-02-14 17:38:00 <Linton, David>
The P types in New Zealand don't seem to have the O2 sensor, John. I've
looked at mine and none of them have an O2 sensor and neither does
Mark's. Even the Mk II I saw for sale in Mt Eden was the same. The
exhaust manifold has the correct mounting point but it is fitted with a
blanking plate.

You do make a good point in saying get the levels checked though.

David

-----Original Message-----
From: John Bouttell
Subject: re:[sconz] mk2 new owner =) need some info...

Hi Mark

Before you start fiddling with the AFM settings, check the state of your
O-2 sensor. Beyond 100,000km or so they can start to get past their
prime in terms of giving out quality signal in response to the perceived
state of mixture from the exhaust gases. The ECU uses this signal to
constantly trim the fuel mixture for optimum performance,economy and
emissions processing by the downstream catalytic converter.

A faulty O-2 sensor can cause exactly what you describe.
I have some (photocopied) NGK/NTK tech ref on O-2 sensors, the two
different types & how they work, and how to test them for proper
function. Contact me off-list if you want me to scan & email it to you.
Alternatively it may be useful to make it available to all via the Tech
Info Section of the web site. LMK Cully?

If your's is a single wire sensor, then NTK make a universal sensor with
crimping/sealing joiner which requires you to cut the lead & connector
from the OEM sensor for joining on to the universal one. Costs around
$100 instead of $300 for OEM replacement.


HTH
John

Reply

RE: mk2 new owner =) need some info...   2007-02-14 19:05:00 <John Bouttell>
Hmmm, intriguing about no obvious O2 sensor. Are we talking NZ new P-types prior to the floodgates of JDM imports being opened in 1988?

It's possible that because such cars were earmarked for a market with no emmission regulations at the time, they may have been shipped without catalytic converters. But then, rather than rejigging the core ECU hardware, one speculates the engineers may have side-plumbed a voltage signal oscillator to mimic an O-2 sensor running under ideal conditions thru-out the throttle opening range.

It's possible the O-2 sensor may have been relocated to be much closer to the cat-con under the car. It'll still be located in front of the cat-con tho'. Do not get confused with the cat-con temp sensor which will be located in the side or toward the rear of the cat-con itself.

Just a thought.
Reply

re: mk2 new owner =) need some info...   2007-02-15 06:28:00 <mark>
cheers for the aerial info david :) i'll ask toyota for a start..

cat converter? haha whats that! 02 sensor is not there either like david said. i guess my easy option is to swap the cracked exhaust manifold for another with an O2 sensor in it. then do like i've done on the 3tgte and run an air-fuel meter. in saying that it only takes a bad injector to put the reading out.. (happened before) i find seat-of-the-pants combined with a/f reading helps when diy tuning mixture. in any case it may be worth checking my ecu if it has an o2 input and wiring it back in??
much to do
-mark
Reply

RE: mk2 new owner =) need some info...   2007-02-15 06:50:00 <mark>
yes 1985 'NZ new' model celica-supra (not celicaXX)
cheers for the o2 info john. i know a bit about the single wire sensors, testing with a volt meter after warming up etc. oh and checking vf signal. im getting a rich unburnt fuel smell (yet to investigate injectors). also get a slight hesitation at 5000rpm when warm. sputters whilst accelerating hard when cold (err oops). oh and sometimes takes a few cranks to start even tho compression 160psi on all 6. sometimes starts with a puff of smoke so valve seals naffed possibly. can't expect much when 274k on the clock heh
cheers again. i'll post when progress made.
-mark
Reply

RE: mk2 new owner =) need some info...   2007-02-15 08:30:00 <Doig, Richard>

> Hmmm, intriguing about no obvious O2 sensor. Are we talking
> NZ new P-types prior to the floodgates of JDM imports being
> opened in 1988?

No NZ new cars prior to unleaded had cats.

> But then,
> rather than rejigging the core ECU hardware, one speculates
> the engineers may have...

Nope. Non-cat/O2 cars had a different ECU. Not hard to change in mass
production.

Interestingly, the Motronic ECU on my Alfa is the same in cat/non-cat
cars. Connect an O2 sensor to one ECU pin, earth another pin and it now
uses closed loop mode (ie. uses the O2 sensor with different maps). It
also has selectable 91/95/98 octane and an alarm function where
grounding one pin refuses to let the engine start.

All cool features for the 80's.

Richard



> It's possible the O-2 sensor may have been relocated to be
> much closer to the cat-con under the car. It'll still be
> located in front of the cat-con tho'. Do not get confused
> with the cat-con temp sensor which will be located in the
> side or toward the rear of the cat-con itself.
>
> Just a thought.
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/ Website
> sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>
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RE: mk2 new owner =) need some info...   2007-02-15 09:09:00 <Linton, David>
I'd say you are correct on the ecu Richard. I have one (ecu) open at
present and there is no pin designated as O2 or Vf. An earlier (1982)
ecu does have the O2 pin marked on the circuit board; I can't remember
if it had one for Vf.

I'd like to know where to find a "correct" wiring diagram for these cars
- the diagrams I have found so far on the web do not match the NZ P
types.

David

-----Original Message-----
From: Doig, Richard


> Hmmm, intriguing about no obvious O2 sensor. Are we talking
> NZ new P-types prior to the floodgates of JDM imports being
> opened in 1988?

No NZ new cars prior to unleaded had cats.

> But then,
> rather than rejigging the core ECU hardware, one speculates
> the engineers may have...

Nope. Non-cat/O2 cars had a different ECU. Not hard to change in mass
production.

Interestingly, the Motronic ECU on my Alfa is the same in cat/non-cat
cars. Connect an O2 sensor to one ECU pin, earth another pin and it now
uses closed loop mode (ie. uses the O2 sensor with different maps). It
also has selectable 91/95/98 octane and an alarm function where
grounding one pin refuses to let the engine start.

All cool features for the 80's.

Richard



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