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7M oiling problems, was: RE: Help! Seized 1JZ   2007-05-23 10:07:00 <Cully Paterson>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andy S [mailto:spud3861@yahoo.com]
> Subject: Re: [sconz] Help! Seized 1JZ
>
> Could this have resulted from the oil filter relocation being
> hooked up incorrectly? I believe incorrect oil filter
> plumbing was what caused my first 7MGTE to destroy its
> bearings. Although I was able to drive it 400km before it seized.


Andy, what did you end up doing with that engine? Did you rebuild it,
or replace it? The reason I ask is that on reflection what we diagnosed
as being the problem at the time doesn't actually make a lot of sense.

We decided that blocking off the oil cooler lines would have stopped the
bypass pressure from going through the cooler and instead force it
through the oil system, stripping the bearings. Problem is that there
is an additional pressure relief valve in the oil pump itself, and even
if the oil cooler was blocked off the pump should have relieved the
pressure just fine. However if the pump relief valve was stuck then it
could have caused the problems - so, did you use that pump again?

Cully


Reply

Re: 7M oiling problems, was: RE: Help! Seized 1JZ   2007-05-23 10:59:00 <Andy S>
Hi Cully

I replaced the long block. Didn't want to pull the
destroyed one apart.

I was running the 7MGTE temporarily without a turbo,
using the 5MGE exhaust manifold. I needed to reroute
oil lines associated with the turbo and oil cooler.

I believe one of the connections I made (along with
fitting a remote oil filter kit) was connecting the
oil cooler feed to the turbo oil feed i.e two feeds
were feeding into each other. At the time I thought
one was a drain into the block. Big mistake. Destroyed
the engine.

Cheers
Andy S

> Andy, what did you end up doing with that engine?
> Did you rebuild it,
> or replace it? The reason I ask is that on
> reflection what we diagnosed
> as being the problem at the time doesn't actually
> make a lot of sense.
>
> We decided that blocking off the oil cooler lines
> would have stopped the
> bypass pressure from going through the cooler and
> instead force it
> through the oil system, stripping the bearings.
> Problem is that there
> is an additional pressure relief valve in the oil
> pump itself, and even
> if the oil cooler was blocked off the pump should
> have relieved the
> pressure just fine. However if the pump relief
> valve was stuck then it
> could have caused the problems - so, did you use
> that pump again?
>
> Cully
>
>
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand -
> http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
> http://www.turbo.co.nz
>




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Reply

RE: 7M oiling problems, was: RE: Help! Seized 1JZ   2007-05-23 15:27:00 <Cully Paterson>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andy S [mailto:spud3861@yahoo.com]
> Subject: Re: 7M oiling problems, was: RE: [sconz] Help! Seized 1JZ

> I believe one of the connections I made (along with fitting a
> remote oil filter kit) was connecting the oil cooler feed to
> the turbo oil feed i.e two feeds were feeding into each
> other. At the time I thought one was a drain into the block.
> Big mistake. Destroyed the engine.

I guess I only saw the engine after you'd pulled things to bits. Yeah,
if that's what you did then that would explain the stripped bearings
quite well. Oh well, live and learn eh...

Cully

Reply

Re: Help! Seized 1JZ   2007-05-23 17:43:00 <Looonie>
Ok... so if I interpret what you're saying correctly, my engine didn't in
fact seize, the crank merely got jammed with some debris?

It was a complete engine, I haven't dismantled the top end as yet. I could
not turn the engine over with a power bar on the crank, with no cambelt and
no flywheel attached. I removed the sump, I cracked the main cap bolts (half
turn each) and I could then turn the engine over with the power bar on the
crank...

Cheers

Dave
021 066 8686

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cully Paterson" <Cully@supras.org.nz>
To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 10:04 PM
Subject: RE: [sconz] Help! Seized 1JZ



> It wasn't the pistons that seized though, after loosening the
> main cap bolts I could turn the engine by hand...

No, you've missed the point there. With all things in their correct
state you can measure the clearances inside the main caps in thousandths
of an inch. Once you've destroyed the bearing shells you end up with a
clearance you can measure in millimeters. There's no way you can seize
that. Conceivably you can jam the crank with debris, but that's not a
seize. Seizure is the breakdown of the piston/ring/bores surfaces due
to the loss of the oil film on the bore.


Cully

---
Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz

Reply

Re: Help! Seized 1JZ   2007-05-23 17:46:00 <Looonie>
Its funny that you mention that, as it was hooked up incorrectly.

The markings on the oil filter block were around the wrong way which
resulted in the feed OUT of the engine block going into the RETURN from the
filter block.

The only subsequent result of this though would be the filters "backflowing"
the oil...

It was initially my suspicions this may have caused the bearings to flog
themselves out and the crank to seize, but after Cully's explanation it
seems its more likely that it was just a pre-thrashed engine...

As a bit of history however, when I first got the engine properly in and
bolted up I ran a compression test after cranking the engine for a while to
build oil pressure up, and it was all over the show (down significantly on
1, 2 and 6 I think)... after advice from an ex-mechanic I put some oil down
each of the bores and left it for a few days, then ran another compression
test, which resulted in all cylinders being within 10% of each other...

Cheers

Dave
021 066 8686

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy S" <spud3861@yahoo.com>
To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: [sconz] Help! Seized 1JZ


> Could this have resulted from the oil filter
> relocation being hooked up incorrectly? I believe
> incorrect oil filter plumbing was what caused my first
> 7MGTE to destroy its bearings. Although I was able to
> drive it 400km before it seized.
>
> Cheers
> Andy S
>
> --- Looonie <supras@boost.org.nz> wrote:
>
>> Point taken, mechanical oil pressure gauge will go
>> in before I start the new
>> engine up.
>>
>> It wasn't the pistons that seized though, after
>> loosening the main cap bolts
>> I could turn the engine by hand...
>>
>> But with the damage you've listed, I think I'll just
>> write the short block
>> off as an expensive paperweight... good excuse to
>> find a 2jz-ge to use the
>> head on :)
>>
>> Thanks again Cully!
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Dave
>> 021 066 8686
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Cully Paterson" <Cully@supras.org.nz>
>> To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List"
>> <sconz@list.supras.org.nz>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 9:44 PM
>> Subject: RE: [sconz] Help! Seized 1JZ
>>
>>
>>
>> > Oil pressure gauge is on my list, and I know its a
>> lame
>> > reason but I'm trying to source one to match my
>> current water
>> > temp and oil temp gauges, so that means waiting
>> till my mate
>> > goes to england to get me one...
>>
>> Do yourself a favour, and go buy a mechanical oil
>> pressure gauge that
>> you can hook up directly to the block. It doesn't
>> have to be permanent,
>> just available to be used for a short while.
>>
>>
>> > Is anything likely to be useable out of this
>> engine or should
>> > I just basically dump the short block? I'm
>> assuming the
>> > block, rods and pistons will be fine but that the
>> crank will
>> > need work or to be replaced as well as new main
>> caps?
>>
>> The block will be useable, but will most likely
>> require a rebore and/or
>> a main cap linebore. At very least it's going to
>> need a very thorough
>> hot-tank.
>> The rods might be ok, but it's difficult to know
>> what state the big ends
>> are in. Reasonable chance that the bearings have
>> been destroyed and the
>> bearing carrying surfaces bashed to bits.
>> The pistons are likely to be trash (that's where the
>> seizing occurs
>> after all).
>> The crank will at least require a grind -
>> questionable if it's worth it
>> given how easy they are to come by.
>>
>> Cully
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Supra Club of New Zealand -
>> http://www.supras.org.nz/
>> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
>> http://www.turbo.co.nz
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Supra Club of New Zealand -
>> http://www.supras.org.nz/
>> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger
>> http://www.turbo.co.nz
>>
>
>
> Visit my website http://andy.supras.org.nz
>
> Home of the 5MGE-->7MGTE conversion!
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________Got
> a little couch potato?
> Check out fun summer activities for kids.
> http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz
>
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>

Reply

RE: Help! Seized 1JZ   2007-05-23 18:10:00 <Cully Paterson>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Looonie [mailto:supras@boost.org.nz]
> Subject: Re: [sconz] Help! Seized 1JZ
>
> Ok... so if I interpret what you're saying correctly, my
> engine didn't in fact seize, the crank merely got jammed with
> some debris?


I'm picking so, yes. The thrust washers look very mangled, and pieces
have broken off - it's entirely possible that it got jammed in an
unuseful place...



Reply

RE: Help! Seized 1JZ   2007-05-24 09:35:00 <Matthew Adair>
just be thankful you didnt take the word of someone you thought you could trust and pay lots of money for a crap engine.

Rebuild and be done with it, at least that way you know whats been done to it and you can maintain it so a repeat of what happened is less likely.
Reply

RE:Help! Seized 1JZ   2007-05-24 09:40:00 <HanrĂ© Van Rensburg>
Here we go again, I thought that wee cow was enjoying it's time at the
bottom of the pit...


Quoting Matthew Adair <prisoner45@hotmail.com>:

> just be thankful you didnt take the word of someone you thought you
> could trust and pay lots of money for a crap engine.
>
> Rebuild and be done with it, at least that way you know whats been
> done to it and you can maintain it so a repeat of what happened is
> less likely.
> ---
> Supra Club of New Zealand - http://www.supras.org.nz/
> Website sponsored by Alltech Diesel & Turbocharger http://www.turbo.co.nz
>



Reply

RE: Help! Seized 1JZ   2007-05-24 13:33:00 <pieter van rens>
"I can't comment on the oil pressure as I don't have an oil pressure gauge
hooked up as yet, but it was leaking a small amount from the remote filter
block so the oil was obviously reaching that point, therefore not a faulty
oil pump/pickup.."

"Its funny that you mention that, as it was hooked up incorrectly.

The markings on the oil filter block were around the wrong way which
resulted in the feed OUT of the engine block going into the RETURN from the
filter block.

The only subsequent result of this though would be the filters "backflowing"
the oil...
"

i was just reading thro this again & came up on this these to bits here could in fact be the cause

- oil cant flow back wids thro the correct filter for this motor as it has a 1 way valve to stop the the oil draining out when the motor is off giveing less with no oil on start up all working corectley

-the oil leaking from arround the remote fuilter could mean that there was no were for it to go dew to the valve being blocked witch would increase pressure forceing out seals ect

just a thort
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