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Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost   2001-10-02 21:05:00 <Rob Moorhouse> Jason, What does the Lexus air flow meter do? If its putting in more air without more gas won't the engine run leaner? Is it worthwhile without the larger Lexus injectors?& what do Lexus injectors cost? How much does it increase boost cutout by? Currently car is std 6.8lbs but with 3" exhaust may be 8lbs. Rob M. The slow learner. ----- Original Message ----- From: "parts-imports" <parts-imports@xtra.co.nz> To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@supras.org.nz> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 3:08 PM Subject: [sconz] Re: back to basics & increasing boost > Slap on a lexus air flow with the mod I've used and heaps more responsive > ready to bolt on $200+gst > one side effect increases boost cut > > Jason > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nick Clewer" <nickc@winshop.com.au> > To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@supras.org.nz> > Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 1:54 PM > Subject: [sconz] Re: back to basics & increasing boost > > > > Oh I agree Stuart but if someone is asking this then I would say they they > > would not be able to install eather and they for would be getting one > > installed by someone that might have experence. For the normal person a > EBC > > is far easier to use. > > > > Shimming the wastegate yes! :) I also forgot the "'t" on the end of that > > can. > > > > I disagree on the Turbo Elbow. That POS is by far the most restrictive > part > > in the exhaust. After replacing mine with a custom DP my turbo spooled up > > 500rpm sooner and also felt ALOT stronger. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: bounce-sconz-45@supras.org.nz > > > [mailto:bounce-sconz-45@supras.org.nz]On Behalf Of Stuart Woolford > > > Sent: Monday, 1 October 2001 10:40 > > > To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List > > > Subject: [sconz] Re: back to basics & increasing boost > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 1 Oct 2001, Nick Clewer wrote: > > > > > > > You can always do with a Intercooler upgrade :) > > > > Personally if you are a spanner virgin might be best to invest in a > > > > Electronic Boost Controller and get it installed.. they are > > > expensive but > > > > alittle bit easlier to use than a manual one. With a manual one they > are > > > > abit fiddly.. > > > > > > an EBC can be as hard or harder to install compared to a manual boost > > > controller, as you need to run wires to the cabin and mount the > > > controller, etc. With a price 5 to 10 times that of a manual boost > > > controller I often wonder why people don't spend their money in better > > > areas... but I guess the whizz factor is hard to beat. a manual boost > > > controller takes me about 10 minutes to install on a not too hot engine. > > > > > > > Also cheaper and more dodgy is the slimming (tm) wastegate > > > trick where you > > > > place washers under the wastegate actuator, very dodgy but it deters > you > > > > from fiddling with boost once you have it set. But that also > > > means that you > > > > can turn it down easly. :) > > > > > > I think you mean shimming the wastegate. :) > > > the problem with this is it's a prick to 'adjust' and makes a manual > boost > > > controller seem trivial to adjust! > > > > > > > > > > Exhaust is one of the best upgrades for the supra! Replace that > > > damn turbo > > > > elbow as soon as you can. > > > > > > generally you will find changing the 90 degree turbo exit will harm > > > performance. the exhaust MUST turn a sharp 90 degrees here to break up > the > > > circulating flow and match the turbo exit. it does NOT restrict the > flow. > > > of course a large exhaust is also a good idea! > > > > > > Stuart. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > Supra Club of New Zealand > > > http://www.supras.org.nz/ > > > > > > > > > --- > > Supra Club of New Zealand > > http://www.supras.org.nz/ > > > --- > Supra Club of New Zealand > http://www.supras.org.nz/

Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost   2001-10-02 21:55:00 <Nick Clewer> > > Jason, > What does the Lexus air flow meter do? It increases the volume of air per minute by about 25%. >If its putting in more air without > more gas won't the engine run leaner? Sure does, but still rich. The stock fuel map is VERY rich for safety sake. > Is it worthwhile without the larger > Lexus injectors?& what do Lexus injectors cost? Lexus injectors do not fit. You mean 550cc injectors, this is basicaly to equal out the stock fuel map, eg 25% larger AFM, 25% larger injectors. With only thr stock 440cc injectors you get a little rough idle (not that I notice) and a hicup everynow and then. If you not going to run over 14psi don't worry. > How much does it increase boost cutout by? Currently car is std > 6.8lbs but > with 3" exhaust may be 8lbs. Would be about right, the stock fuel/spark/whatever cut is around 12psi, some report it to be around 18-20psi with the lexus AFM, I've hit 16psi once while testing my manual boost controller and didn't hit it. > > Rob M. > The slow learner.

Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost   2001-10-02 23:30:00 <Stuart Woolford> On Tue, 2 Oct 2001, Rob Moorhouse wrote: > Jason, > What does the Lexus air flow meter do? If its putting in more air without > more gas won't the engine run leaner? Is it worthwhile without the larger > Lexus injectors?& what do Lexus injectors cost? > How much does it increase boost cutout by? Currently car is std 6.8lbs but > with 3" exhaust may be 8lbs. I'm not sure of exactly what Jason was talking about, but the standard lexus AFM mod requires the larger injectors as well, which are not cheap :( the injector increase is (from memory, it's latish) 550/430=1.28 times. therefore boost cut will move up to ((14.7+12)*1.28)-14.7=19.4PSI ish I think most people run around 17PSI on this setup, YMMV. Stuart.

Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost   2001-10-02 23:36:00 <Stuart Woolford> On Tue, 2 Oct 2001, Nick Clewer wrote: > > > > Jason, > > What does the Lexus air flow meter do? > > It increases the volume of air per minute by about 25%. > > >If its putting in more air without > > more gas won't the engine run leaner? > > Sure does, but still rich. The stock fuel map is VERY rich for safety sake. The stock map is not very rich, it's just rich enough, and the engine MUST run rich under boost to control detonation. If you lean it out the knock sensors will take over and retard (costing mucho powero) to control the detonation. > > > Is it worthwhile without the larger > > Lexus injectors?& what do Lexus injectors cost? > > Lexus injectors do not fit. You mean 550cc injectors, this is basicaly to > equal out the stock fuel map, eg 25% larger AFM, 25% larger injectors. With > only thr stock 440cc injectors you get a little rough idle (not that I > notice) and a hicup everynow and then. If you not going to run over 14psi > don't worry. 100% true, the 550cc injectors are not from a lexus, only the AFM body. > > > How much does it increase boost cutout by? Currently car is std > > 6.8lbs but > > with 3" exhaust may be 8lbs. > > Would be about right, the stock fuel/spark/whatever cut is around 12psi, > some report it to be around 18-20psi with the lexus AFM, I've hit 16psi once > while testing my manual boost controller and didn't hit it. Your engine IS detonating if you are running only a lexus AFM, I can guarantee it, the knock sensors will kick in pretty quick and reduce the problem, but this is a VERY fast way to destroy an engine. Toyota do not run the engine 'Way Rich' for their own entertainment, and fuel economy is an important selling point for cars, they run it just rich enough to allow good power and enough detonation control and cooling for the engine to be reliable. If will, of course, still have the same apparent boost limit as a proper Lexus AFM mod, just running lean as hell. Stuart.

Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost   2001-10-03 06:07:00 <Rob Moorhouse> So what injectors fit? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart Woolford" <stuartw@kcbbs.gen.nz> To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@supras.org.nz> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 11:35 PM Subject: [sconz] Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost > On Tue, 2 Oct 2001, Nick Clewer wrote: > > > > > > > Jason, > > > What does the Lexus air flow meter do? > > > > It increases the volume of air per minute by about 25%. > > > > >If its putting in more air without > > > more gas won't the engine run leaner? > > > > Sure does, but still rich. The stock fuel map is VERY rich for safety sake. > > The stock map is not very rich, it's just rich enough, and the engine MUST > run rich under boost to control detonation. If you lean it out the knock > sensors will take over and retard (costing mucho powero) to control the > detonation. > > > > > > Is it worthwhile without the larger > > > Lexus injectors?& what do Lexus injectors cost? > > > > Lexus injectors do not fit. You mean 550cc injectors, this is basicaly to > > equal out the stock fuel map, eg 25% larger AFM, 25% larger injectors. With > > only thr stock 440cc injectors you get a little rough idle (not that I > > notice) and a hicup everynow and then. If you not going to run over 14psi > > don't worry. > > 100% true, the 550cc injectors are not from a lexus, only the AFM body. > > > > > > How much does it increase boost cutout by? Currently car is std > > > 6.8lbs but > > > with 3" exhaust may be 8lbs. > > > > Would be about right, the stock fuel/spark/whatever cut is around 12psi, > > some report it to be around 18-20psi with the lexus AFM, I've hit 16psi once > > while testing my manual boost controller and didn't hit it. > > Your engine IS detonating if you are running only a lexus AFM, I can > guarantee it, the knock sensors will kick in pretty quick and reduce the > problem, but this is a VERY fast way to destroy an engine. Toyota do not > run the engine 'Way Rich' for their own entertainment, and fuel economy is > an important selling point for cars, they run it just rich enough to allow > good power and enough detonation control and cooling for the engine to be > reliable. > > If will, of course, still have the same apparent boost limit as a proper > Lexus AFM mod, just running lean as hell. > > Stuart. > > > > --- > Supra Club of New Zealand > http://www.supras.org.nz/

Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost   2001-10-03 08:17:00 <parts-imports> running under factory boost cut with air flow meter getting 0.9 bar boost with no power drop of (as dyno test proved !!) no problems with leaning out as I have found a way to modify air flow meter to stop surging problems witch will cause the dramas you describe now on three cars including mine all report big increases off the mark power all report saving in fuel with no top end power loss I believe over factory boost cut you must have more fuel as with all cars boost cut means NOT ENOUGH FUEL I have a spare unit here now anone want to try ?? $200+gst ready to bolt on Jason

Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost   2001-10-03 08:38:00 <Cully Paterson> >-----Original Message----- >From: parts-imports [mailto:parts-imports@xtra.co.nz] >Subject: [sconz] Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost >I have a spare unit here now anone want to try ?? Word of advice: *DON'T* do this. You engine *WILL* run lean, and the chances are you *WILL* blow it up. If anyone wants to see what happens I'll show them the cylinder head gasket that I blew on ALL 6 cylinders when I leaned out my 440cc injectors. The original write up from Reg Riemer who developed the Lexus mod can be seen here: http://www.supras.com/~riemer/lexusriemer/lexusnotes.html Most importantly at the bottom it reads: --- NOTE: The Lexus AFM should only be used in conjunction with larger injectors of the 550 size. A couple of club members around the world are telling people to do the upgrade without the injectors and this is a very bad idea. These people do not understand the functioning of the Toyota ECM and this is sure to cause long term engine damage! --- In addition to the outline that Stu wrote last night, you should also consider that the rich fuel condition under boost is also there to help cylinder cooling. Combustion temperatures can exceed the melting point of your pistons, and the excess fuel helps to keep these temperatures lower. Jason - you are correct to say that it will give you more power. Running the engine leaner than the stock fueling will bring the A/F ratio closer to maximum power producing mixture (around 12:1, give or take), however that will be negated once the ECU is forced to retard the engine under boost to prevent detonation. Cheers Cully

Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost   2001-10-03 09:39:00 <parts-imports> The king of blown head gasket from huge boost my boost is still under factory limits Himmm "learned value +/- 40%" thanks that proves my point less than 25% air increases ecu has ability for 40% increases Lexus air flow with 25% gain problems Kiwi mod only larger chamber used ecu reads 100% of air used Yea har feel the force !! read example # A Jason ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cully Paterson" <Cully.Paterson@uniquest.ac> To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 8:39 AM Subject: [sconz] Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost >-----Original Message----- >From: parts-imports [mailto:parts-imports@xtra.co.nz] >Subject: [sconz] Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost >I have a spare unit here now anone want to try ?? Word of advice: *DON'T* do this. You engine *WILL* run lean, and the chances are you *WILL* blow it up. If anyone wants to see what happens I'll show them the cylinder head gasket that I blew on ALL 6 cylinders when I leaned out my 440cc injectors. The original write up from Reg Riemer who developed the Lexus mod can be seen here: http://www.supras.com/~riemer/lexusriemer/lexusnotes.html Most importantly at the bottom it reads: --- NOTE: The Lexus AFM should only be used in conjunction with larger injectors of the 550 size. A couple of club members around the world are telling people to do the upgrade without the injectors and this is a very bad idea. These people do not understand the functioning of the Toyota ECM and this is sure to cause long term engine damage! --- In addition to the outline that Stu wrote last night, you should also consider that the rich fuel condition under boost is also there to help cylinder cooling. Combustion temperatures can exceed the melting point of your pistons, and the excess fuel helps to keep these temperatures lower. Jason - you are correct to say that it will give you more power. Running the engine leaner than the stock fueling will bring the A/F ratio closer to maximum power producing mixture (around 12:1, give or take), however that will be negated once the ECU is forced to retard the engine under boost to prevent detonation. Cheers Cully --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/

Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost   2001-10-03 09:48:00 <Cully Paterson> >problems Kiwi mod only larger chamber used ecu reads 100% of >air used >read example # A Right, so you're saying that you're forcing MORE air to be measured?? Therefore you're eliminating or at least reducing the effect of having the Lexus AFM there in the first place? And that's going to do what for your fuel cut point? Cully

Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost   2001-10-03 10:14:00 <parts-imports> Yes more air around 15-20% Yes definitely reducing capacity of air intake 1st attempt using adjust bolt surging and missing (detonation) now surging no miss just grunt Increases from 0.8 bar to now 1.2 bar no need for fuel removal running 0.9 bar maxing at 1.2 bar with waste gate creep when thrashing with glowing turbo at around 5500 rpm whipping ass of modded skyline south of whangarei who wanted to have another go 5 k later aha passing with excessive speed sorry officer not my car must have been that nissan that passed me back there Ha ha ha damn i love that radar Feel the force !! PS why have a $800+ boost controller to run max boost all the time ?? Jason ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cully Paterson" <Cully.Paterson@uniquest.ac> To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 9:49 AM Subject: [sconz] Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost >problems Kiwi mod only larger chamber used ecu reads 100% of >air used >read example # A Right, so you're saying that you're forcing MORE air to be measured?? Therefore you're eliminating or at least reducing the effect of having the Lexus AFM there in the first place? And that's going to do what for your fuel cut point? Cully --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/

Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost   2001-10-03 11:46:00 <Nick Clewer> I have had it on a dyno with the boost set to 13psi and the fuel was still rich all the way though the rev range. > > The stock map is not very rich, it's just rich enough, and the engine MUST > run rich under boost to control detonation. If you lean it out the knock > sensors will take over and retard (costing mucho powero) to control the > detonation. > > > > > Is it worthwhile without the larger > > > Lexus injectors?& what do Lexus injectors cost? > > > > Lexus injectors do not fit. You mean 550cc injectors, this is > basicaly to > > equal out the stock fuel map, eg 25% larger AFM, 25% larger > injectors. With > > only thr stock 440cc injectors you get a little rough idle (not that I > > notice) and a hicup everynow and then. If you not going to run > over 14psi > > don't worry. > > 100% true, the 550cc injectors are not from a lexus, only the AFM body. > > > > > > How much does it increase boost cutout by? Currently car is std > > > 6.8lbs but > > > with 3" exhaust may be 8lbs. > > > > Would be about right, the stock fuel/spark/whatever cut is around 12psi, > > some report it to be around 18-20psi with the lexus AFM, I've > hit 16psi once > > while testing my manual boost controller and didn't hit it. > > Your engine IS detonating if you are running only a lexus AFM, I can > guarantee it, the knock sensors will kick in pretty quick and reduce the > problem, but this is a VERY fast way to destroy an engine. Toyota do not > run the engine 'Way Rich' for their own entertainment, and fuel economy is > an important selling point for cars, they run it just rich enough to allow > good power and enough detonation control and cooling for the engine to be > reliable. Sorry disagree here. I have checked the plugs and have had the head off, no detonation. > > If will, of course, still have the same apparent boost limit as a proper > Lexus AFM mod, just running lean as hell. It's running leaner. It is NOT running lean as hell.

Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost   2001-10-03 11:50:00 <Nick Clewer> Well Cully, I've been running with a Lexus AFM now for 1 year. If had the shop put in a metal headgasket and there were no signs of detonation. 550ccs are great, I'm lining up some now but to my experance I did need them up until now. Could be the fact that I only run 10-12 psi on 98 RON Shell Optimax. > -----Original Message----- > From: bounce-sconz-45@supras.org.nz > [mailto:bounce-sconz-45@supras.org.nz]On Behalf Of Cully Paterson > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2001 06:40 > To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List > Subject: [sconz] Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: parts-imports [mailto:parts-imports@xtra.co.nz] > >Subject: [sconz] Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost > > >I have a spare unit here now anone want to try ?? > > > Word of advice: *DON'T* do this. You engine *WILL* run lean, and the > chances are you *WILL* blow it up. If anyone wants to see what happens > I'll show them the cylinder head gasket that I blew on ALL 6 cylinders > when I leaned out my 440cc injectors. > > The original write up from Reg Riemer who developed the Lexus mod can be > seen here: > http://www.supras.com/~riemer/lexusriemer/lexusnotes.html > > Most importantly at the bottom it reads: > --- > NOTE: > The Lexus AFM should only be used in conjunction with larger injectors > of the 550 size. A couple of club members around the world are telling > people to do the upgrade without the injectors and this is a very bad > idea. These people do not understand the functioning of the Toyota ECM > and this is sure to cause long term engine damage! > --- > > In addition to the outline that Stu wrote last night, you should also > consider that the rich fuel condition under boost is also there to help > cylinder cooling. Combustion temperatures can exceed the melting point > of your pistons, and the excess fuel helps to keep these temperatures > lower. > > Jason - you are correct to say that it will give you more power. > Running the engine leaner than the stock fueling will bring the A/F > ratio closer to maximum power producing mixture (around 12:1, give or > take), however that will be negated once the ECU is forced to retard the > engine under boost to prevent detonation. > > Cheers > Cully > > --- > Supra Club of New Zealand > http://www.supras.org.nz/ >

Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost   2001-10-03 11:54:00 <Nick Clewer> Fixed my grammer. > > Well Cully, I've been running with a Lexus AFM now for 1 year. I have had the > shop put in a metal headgasket and there were no signs of detonation. > 550ccs are great, I'm lining up some now but to my experance I > didn't need them > up until now. Could be the fact that I only run 10-12 psi on 98 RON Shell > Optimax. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: bounce-sconz-45@supras.org.nz > > [mailto:bounce-sconz-45@supras.org.nz]On Behalf Of Cully Paterson > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2001 06:40 > > To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List > > Subject: [sconz] Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: parts-imports [mailto:parts-imports@xtra.co.nz] > > >Subject: [sconz] Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost > > > > >I have a spare unit here now anone want to try ?? > > > > > > Word of advice: *DON'T* do this. You engine *WILL* run lean, and the > > chances are you *WILL* blow it up. If anyone wants to see what happens > > I'll show them the cylinder head gasket that I blew on ALL 6 cylinders > > when I leaned out my 440cc injectors. > > > > The original write up from Reg Riemer who developed the Lexus mod can be > > seen here: > > http://www.supras.com/~riemer/lexusriemer/lexusnotes.html > > > > Most importantly at the bottom it reads: > > --- > > NOTE: > > The Lexus AFM should only be used in conjunction with larger injectors > > of the 550 size. A couple of club members around the world are telling > > people to do the upgrade without the injectors and this is a very bad > > idea. These people do not understand the functioning of the Toyota ECM > > and this is sure to cause long term engine damage! > > --- > > > > In addition to the outline that Stu wrote last night, you should also > > consider that the rich fuel condition under boost is also there to help > > cylinder cooling. Combustion temperatures can exceed the melting point > > of your pistons, and the excess fuel helps to keep these temperatures > > lower. > > > > Jason - you are correct to say that it will give you more power. > > Running the engine leaner than the stock fueling will bring the A/F > > ratio closer to maximum power producing mixture (around 12:1, give or > > take), however that will be negated once the ECU is forced to retard the > > engine under boost to prevent detonation. > > > > Cheers > > Cully > > > > --- > > Supra Club of New Zealand > > http://www.supras.org.nz/ > > > > > --- > Supra Club of New Zealand > http://www.supras.org.nz/ >

Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost   2001-10-03 12:03:00 <Cully Paterson> >Fixed my grammer. Yeah? What about your grammpa? ;^) > Well Cully, I've been running with a Lexus AFM now for 1 >year. I have had the shop put in a metal headgasket and >there were no signs of detonation. Nice for you. I can show you several very blown head gaskets and at least one destroyed piston. My first engine detonated so badly that the ringland on the No.1 piston was separated from the body of the piston. This was on a set-up that was showing less than full duty cycle on the injectors and never exhibited any damage at all to the combustion chamber. >Could be the fact that I only run 10-12 psi on >98 RON Shell Optimax. With the exception of our BP Ultimate, NZ fuel is Crap. Note the capital C. Cheers Cully

Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost   2001-10-03 12:34:00 <stuartw@...> On Wed, 3 Oct 2001, parts-imports wrote: > The king of blown head gasket from huge boost > my boost is still under factory limits > Himmm "learned value +/- 40%" > thanks that proves my point less than 25% air increases ecu has ability for > 40% increases > Lexus air flow with 25% gain problems > Kiwi mod only larger chamber used ecu reads 100% of air used > Yea har feel the force !! you are misinterpreting a couple of things. firstly, the feedback adjustment of mixture does NOT happen at full boost, only at cruise and medium throttle, so will NOT help adjust out a leaner condition. The toyota trims don't help here. secondly, this is not a boost level problem, the larger AFM chamber leans the mixture under all condition (excepting of course where the learning does apply, but this is not near full power or full throttle), so you don't need to run high boost to have a problem. people should also be wary of using oxy sensors to check if they are rich, they will read 'rich' under lean conditions at high EGT's, thus appearing rich, and are also not nearly accurate enough to determine the right mixuture under full boost. Stuart.

Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost   2001-10-03 12:52:00 <Grant Brunton> >Would be about right, the stock fuel/spark/whatever cut is around 12psi, >some report it to be around 18-20psi with the lexus AFM, I've hit 16psi >once >while testing my manual boost controller and didn't hit it. > Since I'm gonna be playing with my AFM soon, would the Lexus AFM be of any use to a 1G-GTE? At the moment I'm getting on the higher side of 12 psi, with a Lexus AFM would that mean I might get 18-20?? Grant _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost   2001-10-03 12:58:00 <Grant Brunton> >I have a spare unit here now anone want to try ?? > >$200+gst ready to bolt on > >Jason > The unit being a Lexus AFM?? If so and if good for 1G then yes I'm interested. But would I need 550cc injectors too? Grant _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost   2001-10-03 13:01:00 <Tony Reeves> > Since I'm gonna be playing with my AFM soon, would the Lexus AFM be of any > use to a 1G-GTE? At the moment I'm getting on the higher side of 12 psi, > with a Lexus AFM would that mean I might get 18-20?? The 1G-GTE uses a flapper AFM, same size as the 5M-GE, I think. The 7M-GTE/Lexus has a differnt output and would not operate at all. I also think that the 1G-GTE uses a pressure sensor to trigger fuel cut, rather than air flow, although that seems to vary by model. Regards Tony

Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost   2001-10-03 14:05:00 <parts-imports> Number 4 to my list of no problems with this simple upgrade PS Reg Riemer only sells with 550cc injectors a $100 bolt & a new air flow meter $$$$$$$ I've head 550cc will not run with stock ecu He says will Who is right ?? Jason PS 500cc only need after fuel cut has been passed !! i.e. more than 13 psi were you will have to run more juice no mater what air flow you have ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Clewer" <nickc@winshop.com.au> To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 11:47 AM Subject: [sconz] Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost > > I have had it on a dyno with the boost set to 13psi and the fuel was still > rich all the way though the rev range. > > > > > The stock map is not very rich, it's just rich enough, and the engine MUST > > run rich under boost to control detonation. If you lean it out the knock > > sensors will take over and retard (costing mucho powero) to control the > > detonation. > > > > > > > > Is it worthwhile without the larger > > > > Lexus injectors?& what do Lexus injectors cost? > > > > > > Lexus injectors do not fit. You mean 550cc injectors, this is > > basicaly to > > > equal out the stock fuel map, eg 25% larger AFM, 25% larger > > injectors. With > > > only thr stock 440cc injectors you get a little rough idle (not that I > > > notice) and a hicup everynow and then. If you not going to run > > over 14psi > > > don't worry. > > > > 100% true, the 550cc injectors are not from a lexus, only the AFM body. > > > > > > > > > How much does it increase boost cutout by? Currently car is std > > > > 6.8lbs but > > > > with 3" exhaust may be 8lbs. > > > > > > Would be about right, the stock fuel/spark/whatever cut is around 12psi, > > > some report it to be around 18-20psi with the lexus AFM, I've > > hit 16psi once > > > while testing my manual boost controller and didn't hit it. > > > > Your engine IS detonating if you are running only a lexus AFM, I can > > guarantee it, the knock sensors will kick in pretty quick and reduce the > > problem, but this is a VERY fast way to destroy an engine. Toyota do not > > run the engine 'Way Rich' for their own entertainment, and fuel economy is > > an important selling point for cars, they run it just rich enough to allow > > good power and enough detonation control and cooling for the engine to be > > reliable. > > Sorry disagree here. I have checked the plugs and have had the head off, no > detonation. > > > > > If will, of course, still have the same apparent boost limit as a proper > > Lexus AFM mod, just running lean as hell. > > It's running leaner. It is NOT running lean as hell. > > > --- > Supra Club of New Zealand > http://www.supras.org.nz/

Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost   2001-10-03 14:11:00 <Cully Paterson> >PS Reg Riemer only sells with 550cc injectors a $100 bolt & a Make that US$100... He doesn't do anything cheaply... >I've head 550cc will not run with >stock ecu He says will Who is right ?? They'll work, but there'd be no point running them unless your sole aim in life was to obscure the vision of the people behind you with black smoke... >PS 500cc only need after fuel cut has been passed !! >i.e. more than 13 psi were you will have to run more juice no My best guesstimate based on previous high boost and lean problems is about 16psi. But you still need a competant fueling system to allow fueling past normal fuel cut... Cheers Cully

Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost   2001-10-03 15:35:00 <Nick Clewer> 550cc will run on the stock ECU as long as you get the right ones :) eg from a Mazda RX7 Turbo II work. > -----Original Message----- > From: bounce-sconz-45@supras.org.nz > [mailto:bounce-sconz-45@supras.org.nz]On Behalf Of parts-imports > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2001 11:46 > To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List > Subject: [sconz] Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost > > > Number 4 to my list of no problems with this simple upgrade > PS Reg Riemer only sells with 550cc injectors a $100 bolt & a new air flow > meter $$$$$$$ > I've head 550cc will not run with stock ecu > He says will > Who is right ?? > > Jason > > PS 500cc only need after fuel cut has been passed !! > i.e. more than 13 psi were you will have to run more juice no > mater what air > flow you have > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nick Clewer" <nickc@winshop.com.au> > To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@supras.org.nz> > Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 11:47 AM > Subject: [sconz] Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost > > > > > > I have had it on a dyno with the boost set to 13psi and the > fuel was still > > rich all the way though the rev range. > > > > > > > > The stock map is not very rich, it's just rich enough, and the engine > MUST > > > run rich under boost to control detonation. If you lean it > out the knock > > > sensors will take over and retard (costing mucho powero) to > control the > > > detonation. > > > > > > > > > > > Is it worthwhile without the larger > > > > > Lexus injectors?& what do Lexus injectors cost? > > > > > > > > Lexus injectors do not fit. You mean 550cc injectors, this is > > > basicaly to > > > > equal out the stock fuel map, eg 25% larger AFM, 25% larger > > > injectors. With > > > > only thr stock 440cc injectors you get a little rough idle > (not that I > > > > notice) and a hicup everynow and then. If you not going to run > > > over 14psi > > > > don't worry. > > > > > > 100% true, the 550cc injectors are not from a lexus, only the > AFM body. > > > > > > > > > > > > How much does it increase boost cutout by? Currently car is std > > > > > 6.8lbs but > > > > > with 3" exhaust may be 8lbs. > > > > > > > > Would be about right, the stock fuel/spark/whatever cut is around > 12psi, > > > > some report it to be around 18-20psi with the lexus AFM, I've > > > hit 16psi once > > > > while testing my manual boost controller and didn't hit it. > > > > > > Your engine IS detonating if you are running only a lexus AFM, I can > > > guarantee it, the knock sensors will kick in pretty quick and > reduce the > > > problem, but this is a VERY fast way to destroy an engine. > Toyota do not > > > run the engine 'Way Rich' for their own entertainment, and > fuel economy > is > > > an important selling point for cars, they run it just rich enough to > allow > > > good power and enough detonation control and cooling for the engine to > be > > > reliable. > > > > Sorry disagree here. I have checked the plugs and have had the head off, > no > > detonation. > > > > > > > > If will, of course, still have the same apparent boost limit > as a proper > > > Lexus AFM mod, just running lean as hell. > > > > It's running leaner. It is NOT running lean as hell. > > > > > > --- > > Supra Club of New Zealand > > http://www.supras.org.nz/ > > > --- > Supra Club of New Zealand > http://www.supras.org.nz/ >

	Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost   2001-10-03 19:34:00 <Hunt Moorhouse> > > people should also be wary of using oxy sensors to check if they are rich, > they will read 'rich' under lean conditions at high EGT's, ^^^^ wots that??? cheers Hunt :)

Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost   2001-10-03 19:53:00 <Cully Paterson> > > people should also be wary of using oxy sensors to check if they are rich, > > they will read 'rich' under lean conditions at high EGT's, > > ^^^^ wots that??? EGT = Exhaust Gas Temperature. The additional factor in this is that one of the easiest ways to create excessive EGT is to.... run lean. ;) Cheers Cully

Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost   2001-10-03 22:01:00 <Stuart Woolford> On Wed, 3 Oct 2001, Hunt Moorhouse wrote: > > > > people should also be wary of using oxy sensors to check if they are rich, > > they will read 'rich' under lean conditions at high EGT's, > > ^^^^ wots that??? oxy sensors (and infact EGT) do not follow a simple curve. the diagrams you see in many books and on the net for oxy sensors kind of assume you are operating them as intended, oscilating around stoic mixture. when you run them very rich or lean, they start doing a bunch of other things (an oxy sensor is actually an ion driven reaction cell, and sensitive to quite a few things..) basically they aren't to be trusted EXCEPT in the case of the closed-loop operation at cruise and medium throttle (this does not mean they have to be completely ignored, just that they can lie). EGT is even worse, going from low to high to lower to highish to lowish over the range very lean to very rich. you just cann't beat a proper gas analyser, does anyone know of a dyno setup that actually has one in new zealand? Stuart.

Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost   2001-10-03 22:27:00 <Rob Moorhouse> Definately not into risking the mechanicals of the motor. So, after all of that it seems that initially the simplist & safest thing to do is install one of Stu's MBC's set at under the fuel cutout level. Then at a latter stage do the Lexus AFM in conjunction with larger injectors(RX7's?) and a new engine mgmnt system like Link Plus or Motec? Also any suggestions for decent brake pads? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart Woolford" <stuartw@kcbbs.gen.nz> To: "Supra Club of NZ Mailing List" <sconz@supras.org.nz> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 10:00 PM Subject: [sconz] Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost > On Wed, 3 Oct 2001, Hunt Moorhouse wrote: > > > > > > > people should also be wary of using oxy sensors to check if they are rich, > > > they will read 'rich' under lean conditions at high EGT's, > > > > ^^^^ wots that??? > > oxy sensors (and infact EGT) do not follow a simple curve. the diagrams > you see in many books and on the net for oxy sensors kind of assume you > are operating them as intended, oscilating around stoic mixture. when you > run them very rich or lean, they start doing a bunch of other things (an > oxy sensor is actually an ion driven reaction cell, and sensitive to quite > a few things..) basically they aren't to be trusted EXCEPT in the case of > the closed-loop operation at cruise and medium throttle (this does not > mean they have to be completely ignored, just that they can lie). > > EGT is even worse, going from low to high to lower to highish to lowish > over the range very lean to very rich. > > you just cann't beat a proper gas analyser, does anyone know of a dyno > setup that actually has one in new zealand? > > Stuart. > > > --- > Supra Club of New Zealand > http://www.supras.org.nz/

Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost   2001-10-04 07:52:00 <Kevin Boyd> Robin at Torque Performance uses a gas analyser if you want mixtures checked. cheers Kevin -----Original Message----- From: Stuart Woolford [mailto:stuartw@kcbbs.gen.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2001 10:00 To: Supra Club of NZ Mailing List Subject: [sconz] Re:Jason Lexus AF back to basics & increasing boost On Wed, 3 Oct 2001, Hunt Moorhouse wrote: > > > > people should also be wary of using oxy sensors to check if they are rich, > > they will read 'rich' under lean conditions at high EGT's, > > ^^^^ wots that??? oxy sensors (and infact EGT) do not follow a simple curve. the diagrams you see in many books and on the net for oxy sensors kind of assume you are operating them as intended, oscilating around stoic mixture. when you run them very rich or lean, they start doing a bunch of other things (an oxy sensor is actually an ion driven reaction cell, and sensitive to quite a few things..) basically they aren't to be trusted EXCEPT in the case of the closed-loop operation at cruise and medium throttle (this does not mean they have to be completely ignored, just that they can lie). EGT is even worse, going from low to high to lower to highish to lowish over the range very lean to very rich. you just cann't beat a proper gas analyser, does anyone know of a dyno setup that actually has one in new zealand? Stuart. --- Supra Club of New Zealand http://www.supras.org.nz/

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